I'm having trouble getting the rise I'd like in a few different no-knead sourdough recipes.  In fact, I'm not even sure how long to let the dough proof.  Some recipes call for an hour or two, others up to 4 to 6 hours.  I'm definitely not seeing my dough double.  Any ideas how I can remedy this?

I was recently given a recipe for WW walnut bread that contains the following instruction: "Cover the bowl with a lid and leave the dough to rise for 3 to 4 hours.  It will rise until it collapses.  At this point you can shape your loaf and bake your bread."  This bread calls for 1 tbsp. active dry yeast and 500g WW flour.  My question is this: Has anyone ever heard of letting dough rise until it deflates itself, and if so, how does this differ from letting it rise until double and then shaping and proofing?  Is it just a slower method since it takes 3 to 4 hours for this to occur whereas doubling with this amount of yeast usually only takes about 1 1/2 to 2 hours?  I can't see the advantage of letting the yeast eat itself out of house and home (or at least until the roof falls down!), but maybe I'm missing something!  Thanks in advance.

Summer

Hello, am a novice bread maker and need some help with my second proofing for challah.  I'm fine until I proof for second time on a baking stone.  With braided dough it rises not only up but all over the stone.  Of course this doesn't happen when it's confined in a loaf pan.  How do I keep the dough from blobbing all over the place when it's not in the loaf pan?  The bread tastes good but is generally splayed out not very high.  Need Help to keep the blob from taking over my oven!!  Thanks.  Shalamis

Hi,

Does anyone know why my bread sometimes choses to rise primarily out of one of my slashes. My current threory is that i haven't put it on the oven before it has risen enough in the secondary fermentation.

Hello

I am a complete beginner in the sourdough world. I am a low budget mamma and can't really buy a established starter; moreover, The Netherlands is a rather difficult place to get nice flours (can you imagine they don't sell WWFlour in the supermarket?!?!?!). Therefore, i started my own, with the instructions of Mike Avery in his site sourdough home, 2 weeks ago. Started feeding it every 8 hours, on a basis of Rye and WW, and from the beginning it always smelt so good. So far it has been bubbly and happy, and after the first week I switched to feeds every 12 hours with rye and AP Flour. It started to double its volume by then. With all these signals of health I decided to jump in the pond. I took a recipe of Pain de Mie I found in the Sourdough Companion site, because it seemed easy. It prompted to make a sponge with 1 T of starter (I used 3, though, just to "give more power") and 100gr flour and 100gr water. I left it overnight, and this morning it had bulked considerably. I proceeded to mix the dough ingredients, amongst which there is milk and butter, I kneaded 3 times with intervals of 5 min, 5 min each kneading, then fermented for 3 hours with a fold each hour, until it seemed to have doubled even though I had my doubts. Here things started to seem slow, since in the recipe it said that it would take 2 hrs the first rise. I punched down and shaped in a tin the half and the other in a "log". It's been 3 1/2 hrs and my loaves seem to be so slow...! They haven't doubled so far, and I am wondering if this is normal. Is there anything I might be doing wrong?? I am patient, but I wonder about the average rates of rising for sourdough. I hope anyone can help me with some answers.

Grateful in advance,

P

Hello,

Has anyone here tried the recipe for "Pain de Campagne Poilane" from Bernard Clayton's "New Complete Book of Breads"???

I made the starter last night, and followed the recipe exactly as it is in the book (page 226)

This morning I looked at the starter. It seems to be fermenting quite nicely, but hasn't risen even the slightest. And is this starter supposed to be

so watery? It just seems rather watery and thin for a starter. And the author makes no mention as to how it should be until after the "sponge" is

added.

So if anyone has any insights on this recipe, I'd really like to hear it. Thanks.

Tory 

Hi,My wife and I recently started on the South Beach Diet, so I wanted to find a recipe for a bread that follows that diet (i.e., whole wheat flour and no sugar). I found one at http://www.yumyum.com/recipe.htm?ID=19364.

But I wanted to use the “hybrid” method I’ve used successfully with bread-machine mixes, which is to have the bread machine knead and initially rise the dough; and then move the dough to a regular loaf pan, re-rise it, and bake it in a conventional oven.

Unfortunately, while the resulting bread is tasty, I have yet to make a loaf that isn’t flat on the top. Also, the bread’s texture tends to be a bit gummy, instead of crumbly.

To see a picture of the results and a detailed list of the ingredients and procedure I used, go to http://bmbmisc.home.comcast.net/bread.html

Any suggestions on how to get the bread to rise so that the loaf is more rounded and to make the texture less gummy would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

I have been baking bread for years, but have only recently gotten more serious about it.  I must admit that all the terms I read about on the form have gotten me totally baffled.  I have no idea what many of them mean.  Can anyone suggest a good book that would go in depth about terms and the science behind bread making without going over my head.  One of the things I have been wondering lately is whether or not the different wheats on the market will make a huge difference in the bread produced.  I prefer the hard white wheat, but the white wheat white flour seems to be so dense.  I don't get the lift I always use to get from using Dakota Maid bread flour.  I believe the bread flour was always hard red wheat.  I want a more open bread like I use to get.  I know I need to start using my scale for all my bread making so I can get a consistant bread, but right now I am wondering about the flour and if it makes for a great difference in texture.

Thank in advance.

Blessings,
Lydia

Hi,

I commented in the recent thread that I'm experimenting with the Whole grain Struan recipe in PR's Whole Grain breads book.  

I have now made the recipe twice:

1. using a soaker that I cooked "to order" for the bread:  Bob's Red Mill 5-grain cereal and barley, plus some uncooked rolled oats.  Used buttermilk in the soaker
2. using the same soaker he details in the next recipe for the transitional struan, but with pre-cooked white basmati rice instead of brown rice.  Also used buttermilk.

In both cases, I'm using a wild yeast starter, from the same book.  The starter seems lively enough and the dough is rising in the times suggested in the book.

In both cases, the loaf baked for the same amount of time (20 min, turn, 25 min more).  I keep a pan in the bottom of the oven and pour 1/2 cup or so of boiling water just after loading the loaf on the stone.  I'm baking on parchment.

In experiment #1, the dough was SO loose I ended up adding a bit more flour, but really working with a very wet dough through the process.  It made a nice windowpane after ~7 minutes of kneading.  I had to use the french fold method, because it was impossible to knead in the standard way.  The result was an awesome tasting bread with a few nice holes in the crumb, moist but very flat (I shaped a batard and baked on a pre-heated stone).  I believe the barley was a very nice taste addition.

Experiment #2 was looking much better - the soaker had the consistency of the picture in the book.  The dough, without any extra flour was firm and kneaded well in a similar amount of time.  I was slightly worried about it being too dry - what a change!   The loaf was pretty high (for a batard) in the couche but immediately upon hitting the stone, it spread out and became even flatter than the original loaf.  Sigh.  The crumb was closer/denser and the bread (though good) was not as nice tasting as the one made with the loose dough.  It seemed a little dry, even 4-5 hours after taking it from the oven.  

I have baked very successfully from Dan Leader's "Bread ALone" for quite some time and have never encountered this problem, despite having much less yeast in the recipe (I'm always surprised by the 2.5 teasp. added in the final dough of PR's whole grains - in addition to the starter).  The boules are generally firm and rise well. 

While I know that we'll have some awesome toast in the morning (especially coupled with my freshly made Saturn peach jam)....

BUT I really love the whole grains and taste of the breads from this book so would like to learn what parameters may be causing this incredible spread, even when the dough itself seems to be firmer.  

 Any ideas?   

 Thanks in advance for your thoughts....

MommaT 

I'm a newbie, and after several attempts at creating starters, decided to follow (to the letter) Hamelman's Liquid Levain instructions from his book: Bread.