The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

preferment

Anonymous baker's picture

Question: How to get maximum banana flavour into a (non-quick-bread) banana bread?

May 2, 2012 - 8:44am -- Anonymous baker (not verified)
Forums: 

I'm going to make a sourdough banana (maybe banana nut) bread that's not a quick-bread.

  • Some of the banana will be dried/dehydrated banana, which has an intense banana flavour (added to final dough(and maybe the preferment))
  • Some of the banana will be very ripe, pureed banana (added to final dough (and maybe preferment))

Re:preferment.

littlelisa's picture

Using old dough

April 2, 2012 - 4:34am -- littlelisa

Yesterday I made my usual 'artisanal' bread. My formula is 100% flour, 85% water, 0.01 instant yeast% and 0.015 salt. I made a poolish the night before, using half the flour and water with a tiny bit of yeast. Then mixed up the remainder of the dough in the morning, did my usual folds and rests and baked. I held back 800g worth of dough to use as 'old dough' for my next batch, which I would like to bake tomorrow.

Here's my question: How should I use my old dough? I'm thinking I have several options:

PaulZ's picture

PRE_FERMENT FLOUR PERCENTAGES

March 15, 2012 - 12:38pm -- PaulZ
Forums: 

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to TFL and have a question (not too dumb I hope-) about PreFerment Flour Percentages. I have just received the latest copy of Hamelman's "Bread" here in South Africa (tks Amazon) and it's (PreFerment Flour Percentage) listed before every formula. Besides gathering info in the book that a higher percentage increases flavour as well as the keeping qualities, what's the advantage of taking note of the PFFP? How does the percentage help the baker? What are the pros and cons of higher or lower PFFP? What does a PFFP indicate?

steelchef's picture

Has anyone used or considered wine/beer yeast as a sourdough starter?

April 21, 2011 - 11:44pm -- steelchef

Curious!

I used to make wine in the basement and had great success with natural sourdough starter. It has been six years since moving the wine making to a U-Brew. Now I can't get a natural starter happening.

So, has anyone used a wine or beer yeast to start a poolish?  Any info would be appreciated. I intend to give it a try regardless.

 

Scott Grocer's picture

Preferment: Would milk be OK?

February 18, 2011 - 12:03am -- Scott Grocer
Forums: 

I've got a sandwich loaf recipe here that calls for a preferment that uses all of the water and a final dough that includes powdered milk, which I never have on hand.

The preferment is supposed to be very slack, batter like and fermented for up to 24 hours at room temp before use.

I know that the higher the hydration the faster a sponge develops, but would there be any obvious problem (enzyme action, black magic, bad juju?) using whole milk in the sponge instead of water and omitting the final dough's dry milk?

Thanks!

cranbo's picture
cranbo

In researching another thread, came across this interesting article on preferments from Lallemand, in PDF format.

One interesting morsel:

The preferment minimizes the lag phase by providing an optimum environment for the yeast. The result is higher gas production later inthe process, especially in high-sugar doughs.

The lag phase is the "ramp up" phase that occurs before yeast reach their maximum productivity. The article has a nice chart. 

Here's another interesting one:

Yeast activation takes place during the first 30 to 60 minutes in all types of preferments. Longer preferment times are not necessary for yeast activation, and can have a negative effect because yeast start to lose activity once the available sugar has been consumed. The only reason for longer preferments is for flavor contribution or dough development.

I think they're referring to the activation of commercial yeasts here (Lallemand is a commercial yeast producer, after all). Yeast activation is sourdough I think is different altogether. 

 

OldWoodenSpoon's picture
OldWoodenSpoon

I love beer breads, so when I saw the Team USA formula featured in Crust and Crumb (Reinhart) I had to try it. 

Reinhart points out that this formula is a bit unusal because it utilizes two distinct preferments (three, actually, as Reinhart says in the notes, when you include the beer).  It uses a firm starter made up from a barm as well as a pate fermente (old dough).  I used Beck's beer, which I had on hand instead of an amber ale.  I made the barm/firm starter and pate ferment from scratch using the formulas in the book. I also roasted my own diastatic malt powder to deactivate the diastase enzymes since I do not have non-diastatic malt on hand and don't have much call for it.  Toasting worked out just fine, but I was not prepared for all the smoke.  (Maybe I over-toasted it just a bit.)

I baked this bread with Pendleton Mills Power, home-milled hard white winter wheat, and Wingold Dark Rye flour.  I substituted 1 ounce of coarse rye meal for an equal amount of rye flour.  I found the formula produced too dry a dough on just the water called for (1/2 Cup) and had to increase that to roughly 1 1/4 Cup total.  Some of this is probably due to the home-milled whole wheat flour, which I find to be pretty thirsty in all cases.  More of it is probably due to the coarse rye meal.  The dough balanced out at a very nice texture with the additional moisture and my old Bosch mixer never broke a sweat on the four-loaf load, even with the several extra minutes of heavy work it had to put in while I adjusted the hydration.  Total mixing time came out close to 13 minutes.

After fermenting, degassing and fermenting again I shaped the dough into free-form oval loaves and proofed them in pairs on parchment.  They were scored and baked in pairs on parchment on my baking tiles under a roasting pan lid preheated with the oven to 475F.  I misted the loaves liberally before loading them into the oven, and again just as I lowered the roasting pan over them.  I found baking times somewhat shorter than called for in the book, but that is expected given the shape I used.  Boulles would probably have taken the prescribed amount of time.

This formula produces four loaves of bread.  I could not find a pleasing way to fit all four into my basket, so here are three of the four.

The crumb looks like this:

 

 

Calling this "beer" bread has a point, in that the addition of a nice fully hopped brew should add an additional flavor dimension of hoppy bitterness that is subtle and enhancing rather than strong and overpowering.  Perhaps I should have gone and bought the amber ale called for and drank the Beck's with lunch.  In any event that flavor dimension was not very prevalent in these loaves.  They are good, but I think these would be more accurately called whole wheat and rye.  I accept responsibility for that, for both the beer selection, which weakened that flavor component, and for the inclusion of the rye meal, which gave the bread a stonger rye flavor.  I'm certain this combination of divergences does not do justice to the original flavor.  The beer does add a softness to the crumb however, that is an excellent offset to the chewiness (IMHO) of bread flour.  The crust is not a crispy french bread crust that shatters when you cut into it, but has a very agreeable chewy bite that is also very flavorful.  Overall this is better than average bread, and I will make it again.  Next time I will get the proper amber ale and leave out the rye meal to see what difference it makes.

Thanks for stopping by
OldWoodenSpoon

Pages

Subscribe to RSS - preferment