The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


cranbo's picture

To try to document dough development of a lean dough, I created a video of mixing some lean, 59% hydration dough in my KitchenAid 5qt mixer at speed #2 (the 2nd click).

I'm trying to get a better idea of knead times for my mixer with respect to different doughs. Hamelman in "Bread" says 6.5 - 7.5 minutes for moderate gluten development for KAid stand mixer. He recommends 900-1000 total revolutions for moderate dough development, so with some info from fthec and KAid:

#1 (stir): 40 rpm 
#2: 54 rpm 
#3: 79 rpm 
#4: 104 rpm 

 This means:

Time (minutes) Revolutions
0 0
1 54
2 108
3 162
4 216
5 270
6 324
7 378
8 432
9 486
10 540
11 594
12 648
13 702
14 756
15 810
16 864
17 918
18 972
19 1026
20 1080

According to the stats, I may still have kneaded for too short of a time (H. also says that doughs with hydration under 60% will take longer to develop, as will doughs that have high hydration). It really started smoothing out at about 8 minutes, even more substantially at ~13 minutes. I guess next time I'll have to push it further, and see what happens. 

abovethelau's picture

First Time Baking Bread :) Quick Question!

April 28, 2011 - 8:08am -- abovethelau

So I have been baking all my life, but have never ventured into the land of bread (other than sweet breads, doughnuts etc.) and yesterday I decided to make the plunge and bake my first loaf of white bread.

My recipe made enough dough for two loaves, so I baked one loaf and put the rest of the dough into the fridge so I could make it today (after I had tried my first loaf). My first loaf was tasty and gorgeous but sadly super dense, which was okay for a first try but not perfect by any means.

ehanner's picture

Stretch and Fold-In the Bowl

April 4, 2011 - 6:07am -- ehanner

I wanted to create a searchable link to the Illustration provided by long time contributor and all around good guy, Mebake (Khalid). Khalid has taken pen to paper and shown us how to accomplish the procedure of developing gluten and strength in higher hydration dough. His Illustration is very clear and easy to understand. Personally, I use this method nearly every time I bake and find it a valuable tool that doesn't make a mess in the kitchen and has little physical impact, unlike conventional kneading.

chromite's picture

Dough begins to break down!

February 22, 2011 - 5:25pm -- chromite

Ok, I've been making bread several months and have not encountered this until I've become overly ambitious. I have a problem that started folding some dough that I stashed in the fridge for several hours, now with dough I'm kneading on the first go. It seems to begin to break down?! It goes from being elastic and having surface tension, to being a very slack, non elastic, stringy, taffy-like substance. What have I done?!

BeekeeperJ's picture

Impossible to Overknead in Kitchen Aid

February 10, 2011 - 4:20am -- BeekeeperJ

I just picked up Reinharts book, The Bread Bakers Apprentice.  In it he mentions a detail about kneading and goes on to say that the home mixer will burn out before it overkneads dough and the human body will cramp up before IT over kneads the dough. Anyone have other ideas about this. I feel the home mixer ie. Kitchen Aid could break down the dough before it burns out. Opinions? Or personal experiences ?

jennyloh's picture

Forgot my Sugar, added in after a well kneaded dough still works!

December 4, 2010 - 5:17am -- jennyloh

I was making a chocolate bread today. After putting all ingredients I kneaded the dough well, it felt a little harder than usual, I decided to add a liitle water and finally it came together. I put it aside to proof. Then It suddenly dawned on me that I didn't add in sugar. Instead of throwing itbout or leaving it as is ( it'll be alittle bitter because of the cocoa), I decided to take the risk and add in the sugar and knead some more. Adding the sugar in the middle of the dough a little at a time, I managed to incorporate the sugar in.

Eidetix's picture

Links to videos on kneading by hand

November 25, 2010 - 8:21am -- Eidetix

Happy Thanksgiving to all.

For what it's worth, you will find below a handful of links to videos that demonstrate hand-kneading technique. I encourage others to add comparable links herein, so this thread might become a reference point for TFL posters with questions on the topic.

Links were current as of Nov. 25, 2010.

The first video features world-class baking teacher Richard Bertinet demonstrating his slap and fold technique. He is working with sweet dough, but I believe he recommends a similar approach with other doughs.


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