i have been making french bread, i follow the recipes and use a generous amount of salt - however, no matter what i do, my bread never tastes like the french bread i get in the store or at a restaurant. in fact, it basically has no flavor whatsoever.  my first attempt at sourdough yesterday was a big failure (i was expecting this) but even that bread had no flavor whatsoever.  

i dont quite understand what the problem is, if i am using salt, why is there no flavor? i use grey sea salt.

if anyone has an idea of what the problem may be, i would greatly appreciate some feedback. 

A few weeks ago, I blogged about a bake that was destined for dinner with friends.  I had asked what they would like us to bring and the response was "Something that would go well with snoek pate."  Since I didn't have a clue about what Marthinus put into his snoek pate, other than that snoek is a fish, that left me with (in positive terms) a lot of freedom of choice.  I wound up choosing two breads: a sourdough in the pain de compagne vein and Reinhart's pain a l'ancienne.

Before I go further, I should provide some context.  Marthinus had an 18-year run as chef/owner of one of Pretoria's top restaurants.  Although he has changed businesses, he remains passionate about food and cooking.  He is still very selective about the ingredients he uses and very creative with how he puts them together for the finished dish.  When presented with something, he wants to know what went into it and what process or processes were used.  And he is not bashful about sharing his opinions.  For Marthinus, flavor matters.  A lot.

With that in mind, I was both relieved and pleased to see Marthinus enjoy both breads.  He was especially taken with the flavor of the pain a l'ancienne.  So much so, in fact, that this chef and self-avowed non-baker has begun experimenting with pain a l'ancienne at home.  He's already made it twice, with neither effort quite reaching the goal that he wanted to achieve.  One was, from his description, over-fermented.  The other was probably under-hydrated. 

In spite of not hitting a home run with the first two attempts, Marthinus is soldiering on because the flavor of those breads was still captivating.  As he put it, "There isn't a bakery around here where you can get bread that tastes like this!"  Knowing Marthinus, he will have bread whose crust and crumb is as satisfying as its flavor in the not-too-distant future.  It might even be the final motivation to press ahead with a WFO that he had already been contemplating.

Seeing his interest in the bread's flavor has caused me to give some more thought to the importance of flavor.

We all bake for a variety of reasons.  Sometimes it is as fundamental as putting food on the table for our families.  Sometimes we bake because it satisfies an inner longing to master a craft and produce something that appeals to the senses.  Sometimes we bake because it is better to knead a batch of dough than it is to punch someone or something.  Sometimes we bake because it lets us take an active role in making foods that are wholesome and unadulterated.  Sometimes we bake to be reminded of a special place, or time, or person.  Sometimes we bake because we can produce something better than we can get at the store for less cost.

Whether our reasons for baking are utilitarian or esthetic, we all bake for flavor.  If bread tasted or smelled like cow flop, we wouldn't eat it. 

As you read through the posts here on TFL, you will see frequent mention of the flavor and fragrance of the breads that are being produced.  People get downright lyrical as they try to describe the flavor of the breads they make.  It isn't surprising.  Every bread sooner or later goes into our mouth.  And as we chew it, the initial visual impression that we had of it is supplanted by the flavors and aromas that permeate our mouth and our nose.  At that point, our attention has shifted away from whether it had a open crumb or a tight crumb, a dark crust or a light crust.  What we want is flavor; the kind of flavor that tells us "Yes!  This is the way that bread should taste!" 

Flavor is so important to us that we aren't content to simply savor the notes that come from the grain, the yeasts, the bacteria, or the enzymes that have all contributed to a specific bread's flavor.  Bread's flavor calls for other flavors, sweet and savory.  Depending on the bread, we may want the simple luxury of butter or a drizzle of olive oil or a scattering of salt.  Or maybe a PB&J is in order.  Or we might marry some good ham, Havarti cheese, and a grainy mustard with an earthy rye.  The possibilities are as infinitely variable as the people making the decisions and the ingredients they have to work with  Every one of those choices is driven by the desire for flavor.

Although I have used Marthinus, with his training and experience as a chef, as an example of someone who cares about flavor, each of us in our own fashion is also concerned about flavor.  Whether or not we consciously acknowledge it, every loaf of bread we bake is another step in the pursuit of flavor.  Some of us are adventuresome, others are cautious.  Some of us crave the new, others want familiar comforts.  Some want in-your-face flavors, others prefer to thoughtfully consider the more subtle flavors.  We each, though, want our bread to taste good. 

The next time you chew a piece of bread, think about what you are tasting.  And enjoy!

Paul

Sourdough Rye with Seeds – cast iron bake

First, thanks to Eric Hanner for this post providing inspiration to explore covered cast iron cooking recently:  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21006/my-combo-cooker-experiment.  This is my second bake with cast iron and I like the results!  Flavor and texture were awesome!

I already owned a 5 qt Wagner Dutch oven with a glass lid that has been in the family as long as I can remember.  The diameter is the same as the 3 qt. Lodge combi cooker - the higher capacity of the Wagner being due to taller height.  So I had vessels that would allow two similar sized loaves to be baked at once- albeit with one having glass and one having cast iron cover.  Both loaves came out identical

Sourdough Rye Recipe for two loaves (2,066gr or 2.3 lbs prior to baking)

Overall Formula:

60% bread flour (697gr)

25% fresh ground whole wheat (293gr)

10% fresh ground whole rye (114gr)

5% Oat bran (I tend to add to all of my breads for health reasons - 58gr)

23 grams sea salt

20 gr molasses (approx 2 tbs)

10 gr malted wheat powder (approx 2 tbs) – sprouted, dried and ground into flour (malted barley would substitute)

40 gr mixed seeds: Flax, charnushka/black caraway, sesame, poppy seeds (approx 4 tbs)

72% hydration ratio: 834gr water including starter build up.

Build Stages:

1.      Stage 1 - build rye starter (100% hydration) to 228 grams (11% of recipe).  This uses all of the rye flour.

2.      Stage 2 – add 293gr of whole wheat, 58gr oat bran, 38 gr white bread flour, all of the seeds, 389gr water.  This approximates 39% of the total formula.  When combined with Stage 1 equates to 50% of the total recipe.  Let proof 8 hours at 78° (oven off light on gets works well).

3.      6pm: incorporate remaining ingredients other than salt.  40 minute autolyse.

4.      Add salt, mix 6 minutes on low speed.

5.      Stretch and fold 3 times at 45 minute intervals.  Keep at 78° between folds.

6.      10:00 pm: Preshape loaves, rest 25 minutes, shape into final loaf and place in floured banneton (actually: $1.50 colander from the dollar store lined with a microfiber dinner napkin and lightly dusted with flour- micro fiber wicks away moisture and releases fine with modest dusting)

7.      Place in plastic bag, leave overnight in refrigerator.

8.      Preheat oven 1 hour at 500° - include Dutch ovens and lids

9.      Plop dough into hot vessels, spray with water, score, and cover.  In they go.

10.  Reduce heat to 450° after 5 minutes

11.  Remove cover after 30 minutes

12.  Baked another 5 or so minutes until internal temp is 195°.  Shut oven until internal bread temp was 202°. 

Note: While the loaves came out nice, the crust is not rock hard as Eric was striving for and as was pointed out in his post/link above.   While my crusts were not rock hard after a 30 minute cover, I am still happy with the outcome.  

Perhaps next time I will leave the temp higher and in the oven longer to see what impact that has on the crust. And not spray dough after putting into Dutch ovens?  Or perhaps shut the oven sooner and leave until 210° or so internal?  Any suggestions on that elusive crust would be appreciated!

hi all,

I have baked bread that looks pretty beautiful, but tastes completely bland. Following the NYT "No-Knead" bread recipe (3 cups, 1/4 tsp active yeast, 1 1/4 tsp salt, 1 1/2 cup water, sit for 18 hours, fold, sit for 2 hours, bake at 500) it comes out bland. It tastes nothing like the Italian bread I remember, nor does it even taste like white bread.

I found a CI recipe that calls for a mild Pilsner and some vinegar but haven't tried it yet since I haven't given up on the above recipe.

Is there a magical chemical called "flavor" which suddenly turns the flour+water mixture into delicious tasting bread, or perhaps I need to join a super-secret society of bread makers to discover the secret of getting flavor injected into my bread?

E.g. the last two loaves were bland (I only used 3/4 tsp salt instead of 1 1/4 as the recipe calls for) and salty-bland (I used the 1 1/4 tsp salt as the recipe calls for) - but the look? ce' magnifique!

OT: how do I post images of my great looking bland tasting bread??

Thanks in advance for any help you may give this newbie wanna-be home baker.

-ld

I've recently started trying to bake bread. I've tried a few plain breads from "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" and I feel like I'm getting bland bread. I find the bread even lacking in that nice yeasty flavour. I've done overnight fermentations in the fridge as well as out. 

Can anyone advise on what I might be doing wrong?

Thanks so much!

My starter will celebrate his first birthday next month. It seems to be very robust, however two issues have plagued the process since starting. These issues are flavor and proofing, which may be related.

Process overview:

Flour (KA Bread) 100%

Water 65%

Starter 20% (have varied the hydration levels from 50% to 150%)

Salt 2%

Autolyse 20 min, add salt, first rise 2hrs, strech and fold, another 2hr rise, strech and fold, preshape, overnight in refrigerator, warm up then shape with final proof up to 3hrs.

The kitchen is typically ~70 F for the proof. Loaves look good, but oven kick can be as much as 50% as displayed in the attached pics. Minimal SD tanginess.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

John Ambrose

Greetings my fellow loafers ;-)

I have been struggling with my white sandwich bread recipes lately.  I have tried SO many different combinations in my recipes (bread flour, regular flour, vegetable oil, butter, crisco butter flavored, crisco regular, wheat gluten, dough enhancer, organic brown sugar, and the list goes on).

I also have made bread with Hodgson Mill White Bread machine mix.  I will take two boxes of that, add half milk, half water, and butter flavored crisco instead of butter.  The bread comes out fantastic! However, I want to recreate that with my own ingredients, because I feel like a "bread fraud" using a mix! lol  Maybe it isn't as cost effective. Let me do the rundown:

Hodgson Mill method:

two boxes of mix = $3.20

1/2 cup milk = $.20

1/2 cup water -= free

3 tbs butter flavored crisco = $.30

total = $3.70 for two loaves

Home made method:

5 cups bread flour  = $2.50

1 1/2 tbs yeast = $1.00

1/2 cup milk = $.20

1/2 cup water = free

3 tbs butter flavored crisco = $.30

3 tbs organic sugar = $.15

1 tsp kosher salt = < $. 10

total = $approx. $4.15 for two loaves

So, if the bread mix is cheaper, and tastes better, then I would like to go that route.  But to make "real" homemade bread, I feel like I need to use all separate ingredients.  What is it in that mix that makes the bread so good??? It is elastic, smooth, dense, rich, creamy...just all-around perfect bread.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramble.  Any advice or ideas are greatly appreciated!

Lynn

June is one of the two months out of the year here in Arizona for harvesting mesquite pods. These are often used in place of hardwood chips to smoke meats, AND to grind into flour. The pods make a rather sweet flour (no gluten, obviously). I've read that a tablespoon or two adds a distinct flavor to breads. I have never tried this flour in a bread recipe (yet). Has anyone every tried mesquite flour? I think I'll try it tonight . . . I'll let you know.

Phxdog (Scott)