Hi all,

Awesome forum, and thanks for sharing the ideas and organizing the information. Bit about myself: I started baking half a year ago inspired by Peter Reinhart's lecture and poor availability of real deal whole rye breads around here. Read various web sites and the books on the topic (all the usual suspects). I've been baking 3x 400gr loaves together every 3-rd day or so, and recently got to the point where I really like the results. 

That said, the quest for perfection is never complete, and now I'm looking for better steaming solution than spraying lava rocks. The lava rock actually works very well, but it's not as classy, and I keep worrying about the tempered glass, which I had already replaced due to cracks. The towel trick helps, but I have the sinking feeling on every splash. So now I'm looking into some kind of cover that would sit on the 15x20" stone, and allow 3 large loaves to raise inside under their own moisture. Ideal piece would be 15x20x10" rectangular pyrex piece, but it's just a dream. So, questions:

- Has anyone fabricated their own large cloche solution that they are happy with? Please share the details. I'm wondering about materials, and possible solutions for a peek-through window.

- Is it really critical to have heat-retaining walls? I already have the stone to retain the heat. If the heat retaining property is not so critical, I can fabricate something from heavy gauge aluminum foil. Is aluminum going to interfere with bread flavor? Or perhaps, the steam will damage the aluminum too much?

Regards,

George

Here is a picture of my jury-rigged cloche. Not pretty but it works quite well.

It is a La Creuset round dutch oven (enameled cast-iron, I'm not sure the size) over a Sassafras "Deep Dish Pizza and Pie Baker" (ceramic), upside-down. Someone gave me this as a gift years ago and I've hardly used it until now as I'm not a deep dish pizza fan and can't imagine baking a pie in that thing.

Note that the handles of the dutch oven are not flush with the top, but the stick below the level of the rim slightly (above when right side up) so this won't work unless the deck is raised and just the right size like this pizza pan. It's sheer luck that these worked together so perfectly.

I started out using quarry tiles, with an enormous terra cotta flowerpot as the top (hole plugged with wadded up aluminum foil), but I worried that the spaces between the tiles would let steam out and defeat the purpose of the cloche. Also the flower pot is unweildy and has no handles. I've left the quarry tiles in place under the pan, but I'm not sure if they contribute anything.

The only downside is it only fits one boule at a time and you have to have decent aim delivering the loaf from the peel. I've had a couple of loaves wind up squashed on one side (which didn't impair their taste or texture, but they looked a bit wonky).

The pizza baker has developed some cracks, but I've patched them with high temperature silicone (hoping nothing toxic is coming out...I've only patched from the other side, not the baking surface). While the silicone was drying, I switched to a metal pizza pan (also upside down...and larger) with the flower pot. The couple of loaves I baked on that wound up burned slighly on one side which has never happened with the stone which always produces evenly baked loaves.

I just recieved a baker's stone from NY Bakers and intend to make myself a couple of terra cotta cloches (I'm also a potter) to replace this setup eventually, probably in different shapes and sizes. I wonder how closely the cloche needs to fit around the bread to work? Would too much space make it less effective?

A while back I had a discussion with David about when he used steam and when he used a cloche (or something like that), and I think his reply was some like "I'm still working that out". I've been trying to work that out over the last 3 or 4 months now too, so I thought it might be a nice time to share my thoughts and get the opinions of other TFLers.

When is it better to use steam and when is it better to use a cloche (I'm using cloche here as a generic term for an inverted roaster, tin foil pan, Le Cloche, etc.)?

When I first starting using a cloche I was really impressed with how much oven spring I got. In the beginning I think I was putting an inverted roaster on nearly everything. But as time progressed I began to notice that some of my cloched loaves had shiner, somewhat thinner crusts and not-very-evident scoring marks, so I've gone back to using steam on most of my white flour and rye flour loaves and now reserve the cloche for only 100% whole wheat or high percentage whole wheat breads. For me, it is the whole wheat types of loaves that don't get a lot of oven spring and therefore tend to have a dense crumb and a heavy feel about them. When I put a cloche on these types of loaves, I get about 20% more oven spring and a much lighter crumb.

Many people have asked if it is possible to get a light crumb when using 100% whole wheat flour. My experience is, "Yes" as long as you use a cloche. And I grind my own flour as well.

Another factor in deciding not to cloche my white flour loaves is their slackness. I esp. notice disappearing scoring when using a cloche on slack dough no doubt owing to the increased moisture level from the dough and the cover.

For the record, I'm using an electric oven that is well insulated, holds its heat and steams OK.

(Sorry about the picture quality--these were taken with my old camera.)

100% whole wheat loaves

Uncloched

Cloched

--Pamela

Covering loaves during the first third to half of the bake is one way of achieving a humid environment in a home oven, Its purpose is to approximate the effects achieved by injecting steam into commercial ovens. It enhances oven spring and the spreading of cuts (bloom) in the loaves. This technique has been discussed extensively and repeatedly on TFL.

Various members have used pyrex bowls (with the risk of shattering), stainless steel bowls, larger roaster covers and ceramic covers such as "La Cloche." Each has its advantages and limitations. Most bakers want to have covers for both boules and long loaves such as baguettes and bâtards. Oven size and baking stone size present limitations to the feasible options.

After having had success baking boules under a stainless steel bowl, I wanted to use a cover for baking long loaves. I used the cover and the base from a large enameled steel roaster a couple of times. Its length was just right for my baking stone, but it was a bit too narrow to comfortably accommodate two bâtards. I had loaves stick to the sides of the roaster a couple of times, damaging the crust. Looking for alternatives, I found a couple of large, light-weight aluminum roasting pans in my pantry. They are 15.75"x11.25"x3". My stone is 16"x22", so they fit on the stone well.

They don't have quite as good a seal with the surface of the stone as more precisely made alternatives, but the results of using them is pretty close to that achieved with other covers. On the positive side: They are meant to be disposable (although I use them over and over again), and they are very inexpensive. Also, they come in a wide variety of sizes and shapes.

The brand I have is called "EZ-Foil." Here is a link to the company's web site:

http://heftybrands.pactiv.com/HeftyEZFoil/index.aspx

The online vendors I found only sell these in large quantities. I got mine at a local hardware and housewares store in a package of two pans for something like $5.00. Maybe less.

I have no financial connection with this company and am not saying it's "the best." It's just the one I happen to have bought. 

David

I'm getting ready to bake a loaf of SD bread and want to try baking it under a turkey roaster instead of steaming. I understand that I need to remove the roaster after about 15 minutes, but it isn't clear if I need to preheat the roaster on the stone first. Can someone advise me? Thanks, in advance.

--Pamela

Bad news...I just broke my Cloche. Every once in a while, I used it when I just had to have the crispiest of crisp crusts that I couldn't achieve with the cold oven method. Since I don't want to shell out 40+$ again, I've decided to build a homemade cloche from a terra cotta flower pot and base. But, I'm not sure if the terra cotta is food-safe or not. There's a Joann's in my neighborhood where I can get the materials so does anyone know if their materials are food safe? How can I get the material safety sheet if the employee's over there don't know?

For about the last year I've baked my weekly loaf in my trusty #10 cast iron dutch oven.  The results have always been good, but I'm limited pretty much to baking a boule.  When I saw several posts in TFL about using an aluminum foil roasting pan as a cloche, I thought I would give it a try.

I'm really pleased with the results.  The bread recipe is Jeffrey hamelman's Vermont Sourdough.  I preheated the oven and baking stone to 450 degrees F.  Then I lightly misted the proofed loaf and the inside of the roasting pan with water and placed the loaf and roasting pan cover in the oven.  The loaf was baked covered for 30 minutes covered at 450 degrees F, and an additional 15 minutes uncovered at the same temperature.

The foil pan is so much easier to handle than the dutch oven and gives terrific oven spring when used with the baking stone;  plus, you can vary the shape of your loaves.  Has anyone done baguettes under foil pans?

Prairie19

PS.  Why is aluminum foil called "tin foil"?

I love the results of baking bread under a cloche, but have used the cloche mostly with white and whole wheat based breads. Has anyone baked rye breads 'en cloche' or any other type of enclosed top baker? Were the breads better than baking directly on a stone with steam?

I assume that a cloche would be as effective with rye breads as with wheat, but would love to hear about your direct experiences as I am envisioning a rye bread baking weekend coming up!

Thanks so much,

Liz

I didn't want to hijack the other question where BROTKUNST suggested a turkey roaster cover so I thought I would start another thread.

Hello everyone!