The other day, I accidentally picked up the wrong flour.    I thought I was grabbing the Bob's Red Mill White flour but instead ended up with BRM whole wheat pastry flour.   I'm not much for making pastry and the whole concept of whole wheat pastry eludes me, so I decided to try this flour in yet another variation on the pain au levain I've been experimenting with for the last few months.    On my first try I used the pastry flour as 12% of the total flour with 87% White flour and 1% rye from the starter.    The bread came out with a very nice crumb texture and not bad in other respects but the taste was so mild as to be uninteresting.    Then my son swooped in for a surprise visit for Mother's Day and ate the whole thing so it was good for son feeding at least.  

Try number 1 - tried to get fancy with scoring - didn't really work.

To enhance the flavor, I decided to mix in some regular whole wheat.    So this time I did exactly the same thing but went half and half on the pastry whole wheat flour and Arrowhead whole wheat.   

The latest production of the vardomatic 3000:

As you can see, it blew a gasket.   Not quite the nice controlled expansion that I'd hoped for.    And Mt. Hood from the side:

but even better crumb than the last one and the flavor is much enhanced.

There were both 68% hydration and retarded overnight.   Also I've increased percentage of prefermented flour to 23%.  After going all the way to 33% with Andy's light rye formula, I'm not afraid of these higher percentages anymore.     Has anyone worked with this type of flour before?   The BRM bag says soft white wheat, and there is no discernible bran.    I don't feel like I have a handle on the fermentation yet and would love some suggestions.  

Has anyone here had any experience (good or bad) with Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye?  Through a wholesale cooperative here in Austin, I bought a 25 pound bag and have had very bad luck with it.  First, I could not initiate a rye starter.  My first two attempts smelled horrible and never sweetened.  Thanks to some TFL advice, I attempted the pineapple juice method, and although  the trash-like smell did not take over the starter, it developed no leavening power.

 Finally I kick-started a rye starter with a quarter cup of a successful siff dough levain.  The resulting rye starter smelled sweet, and would foam and would nearly double upon refreshment.

Two weeks ago I used the starter to bake Leader's 3-seed rye, which includes a small amount of additional rye flour (for which I used my Dark Rye) and it was horrible.   It never really rose during proofing, and was flat and very odd tasting - kind of an oily, unwholesome meaty taste.  

In the spirit of giving my dark rye one last attempt, tonight I tried to make Leader's Dark Silesian Rye, a recipe that calls for only one cup of Dark Rye flour as well as a rye starter.  The resulting dough never rose during fermentation, nor proofing.

Is Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye difficult to work with?  I know Bob's Red Mill is a quality product.  Or is dark rye flour generally difficult?  What else could be the problem here? 

Thanks -

Sour Doh

how cool is this guy?

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/blogs/eco-entrepreneur-gives-away-his-company-to-his-employees

This is my first post, so before I get into the details, here's a little bit about me. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and I took up breadbaking a few years ago when I moved here from the Southeast. The first breads I made were Challahs, and I got pretty good at making them. I'd make pizza, too, but that doesn't really count. After a while, I decided to start my own sourdough starter earlier this year, and after baking every week (except during Passover when I wasn't supposed to), I was starting to get a little annoyed that my breads wouldn't turn out how I wanted them.

Yesterday afternoon, i decided to do some calculations and create a bread that is about 65% hydration. I also knew that I needed to adjust my flour. I like using Bob's Red Mill because it's local, but it only has about an 11.7% gluten content. I adjusted my flour by adding vital wheat gluten to the the flour I used.

So, here are the results: The holes are just right, the crumb is nice and open, and the crust is nice and crusty (duh - it's a crust, right?!). Here are some pictures, and below the pictures are the instructions.

Evening before bake:

Ingredients:

• 300g Bread flour (13% gluten content)
• 225 grams lukewarm water
• 50g highly active firm starter

1. In a medium-sized ceramic bowl, mix the starter into the water, then add the flour.
2. Mix until even consistency is achieved (a couple minutes)
3. Leave mixture in bowl and cover with plastice wrap.
4. Let sit in kitchen for ~10 hours (overnight)

The Day of the Bake:

Ingredients:

• 450g Bread flour (13% gluten content)
• 262g water
• Starter mixture from previous evening.
• 20g kosher salt
• 30g olive oil

1. Mix flour and water in a large bowl.
2. Separate 50g of starter mixture and store in a jar for a future bake. Add all of the rest of it to the flour and water mixture.
3. Mix just a little bit, then add oil and salt. Mix again until fairly incorperated.
4. Turn out onto a clean surface (no flour or oil)
5. Knead for 10 minutes, until gluten is well-formed.
6. Form the dough into a ball and roll it in a little flour (to prevent it from sticking to the bowl while fermenting).
7. Put the dough in a large ceramic bowl and cover with a damp cloth.]
8. After ~2 hours of fermentation, take the dough out and form it into loaves, The dough probably has not changed much in size at this point.
9. Put semolina flour into two bannetons to prevent loaves from sticking.
10. Place formed loaves in bannetons and let proof for 5 hours (until dough doesn't spring back when poked)
11. While dough is proofing, put baking stone on the second-to-top shelf in oven and heat oven to 550 degrees. Put a metal cookie sheet on the bottom shelf in the oven for steam-creation.
12. Just before baking, lower temperature to 425 degrees.
13. Turn loaves out onto a peel, slash them, and put on bread stone.
14. Pour ~1 cup boiling water into the cake pan to create steam.
15. Bake for 45 minutes, turning loaves at the half-way mark.
16. Cool loaves uncovered on wire racks.

Okay, so that's it. If you try the recipe out, let me know how it goes :-)

-Matt

I have been shopping at Winco in the bulk section and noticed that they carry -

Whole Wheat Flour and Whole Wheat Bread Flour among many other flours. This got me wondering what exactly the difference was because had not heard of a Whole Wheat Bread Flour. Last time I was there the guy working in that department told me that if I wanted to buy a full bag next time call 2 days before shopping and they will set aside for me. So today I called and talk to them and asked them about some of their flours and this is what he told me:

Whole Wheat Flour - ADM Milling - not sure what one it is from their list http://www.adm.com/en-US/products/Documents/ADM-Milling-Sheet.pdf

Whole Wheat Bread Flour  item #1748 - Bob's Red Mill Whole Wheat Flour

Whole Wheat Pastry Flour item #1731 - Bob's Red Mill Whole Wheat Pastry Flour

Bread Flour - ADM Milling Atlas Flour (which their website http://www.adm.com/en-US/products/Documents/ADM-Milling-Sheet.pdf says is First                    Clear Bakers Flour 14.5%

All Purpose Flour - ADM Milling, I believe it is the one they call ADM H&R 10.25%

Dark Rye Flour - Bob's Red Mill

He also told me that the if we want a full bag - the Bob's Red Mill comes in 25 lb and will receive 5% off the price for full bag purchase. The ADM flours are 50 lb bags and the price is the same as if buying by the pound in bulk section - just more convenient if using large amounts.

Has anyone used the ADM flours? http://www.adm.com/en-US/products/food/flour/Pages/default.aspx

Deanne

I'm thinking about bulk purchasing some flour from Bob's Red Mill.  Specifically, 25# of White Flour, Spelt Flour, and some odds and ends like Teff, Buckwheat, etc, in smaller quantities.

This means I'd probably be freezing a bunch of it and was wondering what experience anyone had with freezing flour for 6 months or so.  Any problems with doing this?

I have been tinkering with PR's Basic Sourdough Bread recipe for a while and have come up with the following recipe, which I really enjoy baking and eating:

 Five-Grain Seeded Sourdough Bread

 (based on Peter Reinhart's Basic Sourdough Bread, The Bread Baker's Apprentice)

Firm Starter

4 oz. sourdough starter

4.5 oz bread flour

1/4 cup lukewarm water

Soaker

2 to 4 oz Bob's Red Mill 5-Grain Cereal

2.2 oz unsalted sunflower seeds (optional)

2.5 oz unsalted pumpkin seeds (optional)

0.2 oz salt (omit if seeds are salted)

3/4 cup boiling water (approx.)

Dough

20.25 ounces bread flour

0.5 ounce salt

Starter

Soaker

1 ½ to 1 ¾ cups lukewarm water

 Directions

          Day 1

1. To make firm starter, remove sourdough starter from refrigerator and allow to warm up for about 1 hour. Combine starter ingredients and knead just long enough to evenly distribute flour and sourdough starter. Spray zipper seal bag lightly with oil. Place firm starter in bag and seal. Allow to double at room temperature, approximately 4 hours. Refrigerate overnight.
2. Place cereal, seeds (if using), and salt in small bowl. Add boiling water to cover. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and allow to sit at room temperature overnight.

Day 2

3. Remove starter from refrigerator 1 hour before making dough. Combine flour and salt in large mixing bowl. Add soaker and mix well. Remove starter from zipper bag, cut or tear into pieces, and add to flour mixture. Using large spoon or your hands, mix in enough water to bring dough together in a ball.
4. Allow dough to autolyse for 30-40 minutes. Turn dough out onto lightly floured surface and knead for 13-16 minutes, until dough passes the windowpane test. Dough should be firm but tacky, like French bread dough. Lightly oil a large bowl. Place dough in bowl, roll to coat with oil, and cover bowl with plastic wrap.
5. Ferment dough at room temperature for 3 to 4 hours or until it nearly doubles. Gently divide dough into two pieces and shape as desired. Mist dough with spray oil, cover loosely with plastic wrap or floured towel, and place in refrigerator.

Day 3

6. Remove loaves from refrigerator 3 to 4 hours before you plan to bake them. Make sure not to overproof. When the imprint of a finger poked gently into dough springs back slowly, the dough is ready to bake.
7. Preheat oven to 500 degrees F for 45 minutes to 1 hour with baking stone and steam pan in place. Slash loaves and transfer carefully to baking stone. Immediately pour 3/4 cup hot water into steam pan. Close oven and lower temperature to 450 degrees F. Bake for 10 minutes, then rotate loaves to ensure even baking. Continue to bake for 10 to 20 minutes, until the loaves register 200 to 205 degrees F in the center.
8. Cool for 45 minutes before slicing.

 Note: If you want to make the bread in 2 days instead of 3, after dividing, shaping, and misting the dough in step 5, cover the loaves and allow to proof at room temperature for 2 to 3 hours, then bake as directed.

I picked up a bag of Bob's Red Mill 5-Grain Cereal (oats, wheat, barely, flaxseed, etc.) at the store today, thinking I would add it to some dough for a bit of texture and taste.  Now that I have it home, I'm wondering, should I just add a bit of it as is, in place of the flour, or should I make a soaker with it?  I've made one recipe with a soaker and have just begun substituting rye or whole wheat for the bread flour in recipes, so this is kind of new to me.  Any thoughts?