Well this is my first batch of baking to be posted to this site, and having read so many rave reviews, I knew Norm's Onion Rolls had to be the recipe to start me off. I used the variation posted by Ehanner (which was really clear and easy to follow, so many thanks)

As mentioned, the dough was really stiff andif I hadn't been following the recipe so closely, I would definitely have added more liquid. After a quick initial knead, I left the dough to sit for about 20 minutes, then got stuck in and kneaded for about 10-15 in total. i'm still recovering from a back operation, so I have to do this kind of thing in stints.

After the first rise, shaping and the recommended relaxing time, I squished the rolls into the onion mixture, as advised, and it stuck really well. I was a bit nervous of flattening them too much, and squashed them to about .5 inch, but as they rose so beautifully later, I'd be less ginger next time.

My fan oven isn't that efficient, so I knocked the temp down by just 5 degrees, and once the rolls were proved ( judged by finger poking), I did the thumb poke in the middle of each and put them in the oven with a splash of hot water in the tray at the bottom. I turned and rotated the trays after 10 minutes, and thanks to a call from my Mum mid-bake, they were ina bit longer than I'd planned - just over 25 minutes. Some of the onion got a little singed, but it still tastes good, but I'd cook them for less time next time around. And there certainly will be a next time, because despite my botching, these turned out incredibly delicious - I see what all the fuss is about! Thanks to Norm and all of you who've posted about this recipe for inspiring me to try it.

One question I have, is that although I imagined these we going to be more bagel-like in terms of density, they actually ended up quite light and fluffy (I'm always startled at how much white flour bread rises). I don't know if that's the correct consistency, but I'll post some pics once I've figured out how. but here are some pics of the results:

Hello.  Today I received my free sourdough starter (thank you NY Baker!).  In a few days it will be ready to go.  Can anyone offer suggestions on a sourdough bread recipe for a beginner?  I understand it is wise to stick with one recipe while you learn the ropes.  Which "one recipe" should that be?

I would like to find a good video showing someone baking a basic white or white and whole wheat bread without a bread machine.  I really enjoy watching people bake or cook.  I can learn better watching than just reading the steps.  I know there are lots of vidoes out there but am wondering if anyone has found a good one.

Thank you.

 Ginny

I've read this website and blog for years.  Over those years I've tried lots of different breads from lots of books.  I haven't made a truly serious study of it.  I'm not baking multiple loaves a week, nor am I going through formal training to become a baker.  However I do have lots of books and recipes that I've tried repeatedly.  The first bread I ever made was a focaccia bread from a recipe I found in a USENET posting way back in the early days of the internet.  It was all I could find at the time.  Throughout college I used that plus the recipe for french baguette from Julia Child's "Mastering the Art of French Cooking."  In recent years I've added lots of bread books to my collection, and lots of trial and error.  I have the "Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day" and the follow-on book.  I have a book on ancient bread making.  I have the Tartin bread book.  I'm at the stage where I want to start trying to do things more seriously.  However I'm also at the stage where I can sort of wing it and have pretty good results.

Throughout the years I always had a facination for sourdough breads.  When I moved to my current location I was lucky enough to have a neighbor who has been feeding the same starter for over 35 years.  He gave me a sample of it and it is the basis for all of the sourdough cooking that I do.  It is a very vigorous starter that I keep in the fridge and feed 1 cup of water and 1 cup of unbleached King Arthur All Purpose flour every 1-2 weeks.  It has served me well and I look forward to continuing with it.

Like many others I will be posting recipes and pictures of the results of those recipes.  Some will be from the standard sources.  Others, like my first entry, will be the results of my experimentation.  I don't always follow the rules as much as I should, but as long as the results are good (or at least good enough) then I guess I shouldn't complain.  It is just a bit intimidating to make posts of such amateur results when there are so many amazing posts of delicious and beautiful breads by other members.  We all start somewhere I suppose, and this is where I'm starting the sharing of my bread adventures online.

Hank

Hello all,

This is my first post on The Fresh Loaf. I've been a regular (unregistered) visitor to the site for a couple of months and I've learned a lot about bread from these forums, so a quick thank you to all you helpful people out there.

Anyway, here's my problem: no matter what I do, my bread always comes out slightly raw at the bottom and the lower halves of the sides.

I've been baking bread for a couple of months now. I bake whole-wheat bread because it's healthier. I've baked only six loaves up until now so I'm still very much a novice at this. I would appreciate any help you folk could give me. I've searched the forums for answers to my questions but none of the information seems to apply (exactly) to me.

I will now attempt to provide details usually asked of people on these forums in order that they can be helped better. Sorry if it makes the post too long. Please feel free to skip any section if you so wish. I will describe first, the recipe, second, the equipment I use (including my oven) and thirdly, my baking results and problems. I've included photos where (I thought they were) necessary.

I. Recipe:

A. Ingredients -

I use a simple (not enriched or anything) bread recipe since I'm only starting out. I usually bake a single 500g loaf at a time. These are the ingredients I use:

1. 500g whole wheat flour (not very rich in gluten, I know. But it's healthy, so I prefer it).
2. 300g (or ml, if you prefer) water (approx. 60% by weight of flour).
3. 1tsp active dry yeast (please see below in point 2 of the "Methods" section some notes on the yeast I use).
4. 2tbsp vegetable oil for shortening
5. 1tsp salt
6. 1tbsp sugar (I add sugar only if I feel like it).

In terms of volume, I use 2 cups of water to just over 6 cups of wheat. However, I always measure the ingredients by weight just to make sure.

B. Methods -

1. Proofing the yeast: I warm the water till it's slightly uncomfortable to touch, then add the yeast and the sugar (or honey if I have it). Then I leave this mixture for about 10 minutes.
Note on the yeast I use: The yeast that we get here does NOT foam or bubble on being proofed. I've tried two different brands of active dry yeast that the shops stock over here and I've used yeast from different packets so I'm sure it's not a problem with a bad batch of yeast or anything. The yeast we get here simply doesn't foam like the pictures I've seen on the Internet. Instead, I see only a few small bubbles on the surface at the end of the proofing period. I'm sure that the yeast dissolves into the water properly because it does make it cloudy.
In an attempt to get the yeast to bubble, I've tried proofing for 10 mins, 15 mins and once even for 45 mins but no dice (I didn't use the 45 mins one because I read that proofing the yeast too long kills it). I've also tried adding extra food for the yeast like honey and sugar but I still can't see lots of bubbles. Nevertheless, dough made with this yeast always rises so I guess it's okay. I'm just putting this down here in case this may be contributing to my problem.

2. Making the sponge: Once the yeast has proofed, I make a sponge. I add an equal amount of flour to the yeast and water mixture and stir it till it forms a gooey paste. So, if I'm using 300 ml of water (2 cups), I put in 300g whole wheat flour (just under 4 cups) and stir it (I add the remaining flour in the kneading step). Then I leave this mixture to double. Since I usually add only 1tsp of yeast (half of what most recipes online call for), it takes a long time (max. 6-8 hours) for the sponge to double. I don't place it in a warm place, just an area of the kitchen that's draft-free. If you're wondering why I don't add more yeast, it's just because the dough smells too strong for me if I do (I've got a very sensitive nose).

3. Kneading: once the sponge has doubled, I slowly add in the remaining flour (about 200g or 2.5 cups) while kneading the dough. I do all my kneading by hand because I don't have a bread-maker (and it's more fun getting your hands dirty! :) ) I knead for about 20 mins till the dough is smooth and somewhat shiny. I also use the windowpane test and the finger-poke test to tell that the kneading is done.

4. Second rise: once the dough is ready, I make a ball, stretch it and pinch the sides down under the bottom, coat the entire surface lightly with oil to prevent it from drying out. Then I leave it to double in size. This usually takes about 4-5 hours to happen (probably because of the small amount of yeast I'm using). Again, no special heated environment, just a draft-free corner of the house.

5. Shaping: once the dough has doubled, I knead it again for about 10 minutes. I've read conflicting advice on kneading at this stage. Some people say kneading at this point will de-gas the dough and prevent it from rising but I knead it all the same. Sometimes, I add raisins to the dough at this stage. After shaping the dough (again stretching to maintain surface tension and pinching at the bottom), I put it in my baking pan. Then I leave it for the final doubling. This takes another 2-3 hours.

6. Third rise and baking: After the bread has doubled and is peeking an inch or so over the top of the pan, I put it in the oven. I bake the bread at 150 celsius. I've tried 200, 160, 130 and 140 degrees celsius but I get the best results at 150. Before putting the bread in the oven, I preheat it to 150 degrees. The bread usually takes about 45 minutes to bake. I start getting that wonderful bread-baking aroma after 25 minutes of baking. Some notes on this time duration in point 2 of the "Results and Problems" section below.
I have a convection oven. Some important notes on my oven in point 2 of the "Equipment" section below.

II. Equipment:

1. A pair of hands :) like I said, I do all my kneading by hand.
2. Oven: I have a CONVECTION oven. It's actually a microwave oven with a convection mode (in which the microwave part is not used). The oven is quite small and has ONLY ONE heating element on the top. There are fans on the sides that circulate the air around the chamber. I usually place the bread pan on a grill so that the hot air flows under the pan as well. Here are two pictures so you get an idea of the size of the oven (I bake the bread in a pan. I've put it directly on the grill only to give you an idea of the relative size of the oven):

Now, a close-up:

3. Bread Pan: I use an aluminum bread pan to do my baking in. I've also tried baking on a flat surface but the bread pan maintains the shape of the bread (during the final rise) so I prefer to use it. Here's a picture:

III. Results and problems:

1. Sides and bottom not fully cooked (slightly moist): this is the major problem I have. Here's a picture of the bread so you can see (sorry for the mess on the table):

The sides look (and taste) slightly uncooked no matter how long I bake the bread. I usually go as long as 45 mins to 1 hour but the only thing that happens is that the crust becomes too hard. It's as if the dough at the bottom doesn't rise at all. I can't tell if it's because:

1. of the pan I'm using. I've also tried baking on a flat, open surface but the bottom and lower half of the sides still turn out the same way.
2. of my oven. There's only a single heating element on the top so maybe the bottom of the pan doesn't get hot enough? To alleviate this problem, I tried placing my pans on a grill so the hot air can flow under the pan as well. But I still get the same results.

2. Crust too hard: Because it always takes so long for the sides and bottom to cook, the crust is usually hard (and a little burnt) by the time the baking is done (and even then, as I said above, the bottom and sides aren't fully cooked. :( ). Here's a picture. The crust is extra dark because I glazed it with milk while baking and the black thing is a raisin:

I've also tried glazing the top of the bread with milk and water while the bread is baking (I just open the oven door, coat the water/milk on and close the door) in an effort to keep the crust soft. However, with all the time the bread takes to bake, the crust is always hard by the time I'm done. I've read that hard crusts usually indicate a problem with the oven heating, and maybe the fact that the heating coil on the top of the oven is only about six inches from the top of the bread is a problem... Anyway, I've tried so many temperatures while baking and nothing has helped. My gut feeling is that if the sides and bottom didn't take so long to cook, the crust would be just fine.

3. Dense: Here's a close-up of the bread so you can see its texture (the black thing in the center-right of the bread is a raisin):

It's closer to cake than to bread LOL. I've read that high density is usually a result of adding too much flour but I stay strictly within the limit prescribed in recipes (water is 50-60% of whole wheat flour by weight). In fact, the bran in the whole wheat flour is usually good at absorbing excess water, so I don't feel the need to add extra water. My bread is still dense though. Can't quite explain it. Is it because I'm using too little yeast?

Well, thanks for your patience and for reading this far. If you have any advice or suggestions, I'd be most happy to hear it.

I'm new to this and have only done around 7 breads so far (each one progressively better than the last for the most part)  However, since my first attempt at a pain rustique didn't fair well, I decided to give it another shot today.  I mixed my poolish last night (100% hydration) but ended up having to t'fer it to a larger bowl very early this morning (put it in one that was way too small for some reason).  I have to say, the wonderful fragrance that leaps from the bowl when you first remove the plastic wrap from this stuff is just incredible!  Here's what it looked like after 13 hours:

Here's the formula that I calculated based on Hamelman's pain rustique.  I simply typed in my figures into a  "design worksheet" pdf along with my notes.  I guess I got it right considering the end result :)

I proofed 900g of dough in a 8" X 10" X 3" homemade banneton (cost me all of $2).  After 20 min I inverted it onto a peel.   I had trouble scoring (as usual).  The dough, while manageable after the stretch and folds, was still pretty sticky so the knife tugged on the surface of the dough.  Maybe this will be easier after I get my lame this week.  After my pitiful scoring, the dough somewhat deflated...

However, after just  10 minutes (at 465F on a stone), it seemed to perk up a bit.  I did pour a cup of hot water into a pan on the bottom of the oven for steam as well as sprayed the top of the loaf and the oven walls (twice).

I continued baking while keeping an eye on the color... at 40 minutes, I decided to take it out.  The internal temperature was 205.  Overall, this one looked the best to me.  No "singing" was heard but there was a lot of nice crackling going on.   (The oval shape somehow got a little distorted getting it from the proofing basket to the peel)

The crumb came out better than any of my other breads.  It smells and tastes great but I'm wondering just what the "bite" of the crumb should be like?  This has some resiliance to it; chewy but not tough and it does dissolve in the mouth nicely.  Is it that I'm tasting good bread for the first time or did I screw this up and simply produce bad bread?  :) )

Here's a cross-section of an end piece.  The larger air pocket has a bit of a sheen to it.  I've read somewhere this is a good sign?

 One would think that making bread would be relatively easy but I'm learning that's not necessarily the case :) Well, that's about it :)  Thanks in advance for any advice or comments.

Po Jo 

I just attempted my first loaf using a recipe for Whole-Wheat Spiced Bread from the World of Breads (Casella, 1966).   I proofed the yeast successfully, but the dough never rose more than about 25-50%, and the resulting bread was delicious, but not as light as I had hoped.  What went wrong?  Here's what I did:

Poured 2 c scalded milk over:

*1/4 c brown sugar, 1 t salt, 1/4 c honey, 1/3 c butter

Dissolved 2 packets Fleischmanns Rapid Rise Yeast  in 1/4 c of warm water (120 F - I swear I read this was the appropriate temperature somewhere, but now it seems too hot).  It quickly became very foamy.  Added the yeast/water mixture to my now lukewarm milk mixture.  

Added 1 egg, 1/3 c orange juice.

Mixed in 2 1/2 c white + 4 c whole wheat flour + 1 t cinnamon.  

Kneaded for about 10 min.  Placed the dough in buttered bowl covered in a damp towel, on the stove (still warm from using the burners earlier); it was around 70 F in the kitchen.  Could it have been too hot on top of the stove?  After four hours it had barely risen at all, but I went ahead and punched it down though there wasn't much to punch,  kneaded it for another minute, then set it back in the bowl and went to bed.  In the morning, it still had hardly risen at all, but I baked in two buttered 9-inch loaf pans at 425 for ten minutes, then 350 for 25 minutes.  The bread rose some in the oven, developing a nice little dome, but just barely reached the top of the pan.    

I'm trying not to get too discouraged on my first attempt, the bread was completely edible afterall.  Does anyone have any ideas about where I went wrong?  Thank you!

Hi everyone. I'm new to this website and forum.  I read the book Bread Alone by Judith Hendricks and was instantly inspired to bake - even though I know absolutely nothing about baking bread :-).  I love bread and I think there is nothing better than the smell of home-made bread.  I have very fond memories of my gran (who was Portuguese) baking her sweet potato loaves and we would all wait impatiently until the bread was out of the oven and almost tear the loaf apart and smear big blobs of butter all over it. And I was so disppointed that the recipe was never passed down to my mother :-(.  I would love to have a home where my family experience the joy of home-made bread and to give them this experience and pass down recipe's to my children.   

I need to start from the very beginning.  Could anyone please recommend a very simple, basic bread recipe that I could try at home?  I would appreciate it!  And I love all the recipe's I've come across on this website - they all look so yummy!

I can't wait to start baking!

Hello Everybody!

I have been bumping around trying to bake bread for several years.  My Grandmother had a recipe that used half a box of the old ban cereal that looked like twigs and sticks, but the result was a firm, excellent, basic white sandwich bread.  I remember spending what seemed like to my 7 year old mind an hour at least kneading the dough, although I'm sure it was not that long.  So far doing my own kneading by hand most of my attempts have not been very successful.  I am not sure I am kneading correctly and I should probably watch a couple of Youtube videos on the subject.  I have to admit that I have arthritis in my hands and kneading by hand is not that wonderful of an experience for me.

I love sourdough and I have managed to create a wonderful sourdough starter that I have kept alive for several months now and I call it Frank, (Yes as in Frankenstein).  I have made a sourdough cornbread that was almost more like a creamy pudding!  It was wonderful, but my breads have for the most part tasted okay but the crumb has been poor.

I am now trying to use weight measurements for my ingredients since it can be tricky determining how much flour to use, packed or fluffed?  I live in Northwest Washington State, just South of Seattle and it is usually between 45 degrees F/7.2 degrees C to 69 degrees F/20.5 degrees C.  So I have a finished, insulated shed in my back yard that I can heat up to 80 degrees F/26.6 degrees C and I have found that I can do all my rising and proofing in the shed and get decent reactions from my dough. 

Yesterday I started the 100% Calvel sourdough Pain au levian bread.  I have to admit that I was extremely surprised when I made the refreshed culture and this time I put it in a tall, 6 inch diameter juice container and marked the container where it should be at about triple the volume and after 6 hours it had actually reached that mark!  I was skeptical that it would actually rise that much!

Since I had not thought the recipe through very well I found myself up at 1:00a.m. to mix the dough, which to some extent was almost a disaster since I had also not figured out the measurements ahead of time
Where does this website hail from?  Australia?  I'm just curious since almost all of the measurements are in grams and I have to convert everything to ounces which can be difficult when the conversion is an odd number like 1.18 ounces and my scale is a physical needle with one ounce markings.  I will have to pick up a nice new digital scale.  Any suggestions?

Anyway I digress, I found out quickly that slightly over 4 cups of flour and the amount of water is more than my nice little Cuisinart 5.5 quart stand mixer can handle!  It was too late to do it all in two batches so when I was finished I had to hand kneed the dough to make sure everything was incorporated and then I had to spend a half an hour with a tooth pick and paper towels removing dough from the upper housing of my mixer! Ooof!  That was a lesson I will not forget. 

Well I am doing the mix the dough and refrigerate until tonight when I will divide, shape, proof and bake half of the dough.  According to the threads in the

100% sourdough bread from The Taste of Bread by R. Calvel

forum topic I should be able to get 3, 1.5 pound loaves from half of the dough.  I am going to also see if I can find a stainless steel bowl to cover the dough for the first 20 minutes and see how that does for helping my pathetic old gas oven bake a springier loaf.  If I can't find a bowl I do have a stainless steel pot but it is Teflon lined and I am not sure I want to get it up to the heat levels that it might inside my oven.  I also have a medium sized dutch oven that I can invert over the loaf as well but I am not sure how much room it has inside to allow the loaf to rise as far as it might.

Anyway, this is my first rambling hello message in these forums!  I will post my results after tonight!  So far at least the measuring by weight has been more successful for the first results!

David Chapman

I've recently started trying to bake bread. I've tried a few plain breads from "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" and I feel like I'm getting bland bread. I find the bread even lacking in that nice yeasty flavour. I've done overnight fermentations in the fridge as well as out. 

Can anyone advise on what I might be doing wrong?

Thanks so much!