First post, but I've been reading here a while (with awe).  I've wanted to bake bread for 20 (30?) years but was too intimidated.  Last weekend, I finally tried the "Loaf for Learning" from Laurel's Kitchen (Whole Grain) Bread Book and it was fabulously successful!  Next project:  whole wheat everything bagels.

Laurel calls for malt syrup in the boiling water - no problem.  But the recipe also calls for non-diastatic malt SYRUP, which goes in with the flour, yeast, etc.  I could only find non-diastatic malt POWDER.  How do I substitute powder for syrup?  Hydrate it first? How?

Parenthetically, I chose Laurel's recipe over Peter Reinhart's because it looked easier for a newbie.  Has anyone tried both and how do they compare?

Thanks in advance for any light you can shed!

Janet

Hello, I wanted to bake something easy today. I found Rose levy's Baily formula on line and made a single test batch. After shaping the six pieces of dough into tight balls I let them rest for one hour. When it came time to shape the baily I decided to make three bagels. I quickly heated a sm. pot of water & baking soda and started to shape my bagels. I used the punch a hole in the middle with your finger method, then just twirled it on my index finger. It worked great but next time they go right off my finger into the boiling water. I messed up the shape picking them back up after shaping. The Flat Baily is close to what a New York Baily looks like the onions did not stick next time i will push them into the dough instead of just lay them on. That's what a test run is for.

I've never been a big fan of bagels, which is part of why I skipped this recipe at first, but I know a lot of people who like them so I finally decided the time was right. First step of the recipe is easy, making a sponge, just water, flour and yeast left to expand for a few hours.

Once the sponge is ready, time to (attempt) to mix in the rest of the flour, the yeast, and malt powder. I say try, because bagel dough is really low hydration so I ended up needing to add a fair portion of the flour during the kneading. There was just no point in adding more to the dough while it was still in the bowl. And boy did it require a lot of kneading...

Once kneaded I let the dough rest for a bit and started dividing it into roughly equal balls. Followed by a bit more resting, and shaping into bagels (I used the thumb punch shaping method shown in the book, it worked really well). Then the shaped bagels took a trip to the fridge for retardation overnight.

I wasn't really sure of the taste in bagels of the people I was making these for, so I stuck with plain, poppy seed, sesame seed and cinnamon raisin (trying to make 1/4 of the dough cinnamon raisin after the dough is already mixed is VERY tricky, I do not recommend it, but it was the only way I could see to easily divide it so). The boiling process before topping the bagels was easy, a little bit of baking soda and malt powder added to the water (they really make it foam up!) and away they went. I didn't notice I had no cornmeal or semolina left before I started, and the semolina flour worked less than perfectly when placing the boiled bagels back on the sheet pan, which definitely reminded me to pick up cornmeal the next time I was at the store.

I followed the suggestion in the book to top the cinnamon raisin bagels with brushed on butter and a cinnamon sugar topping, looked delicious! As did the rest of the bagels. Note, I say looked, I made this first batch to take in to people at school and since I only made the single batch of 12 I didn't actually get to try any(I did the next time I made them though)! One thing I was surprised by during the baking process was the blast of steam/water vapor when you open the oven to turn them around, I'm not sure if it is because of all the water in the crust from the boiling or the baking soda... But when I opened the oven to turn them around it felt like some sort of chemical weapon assault! Never experienced that when baking bread before.

Another post submitted to YeastSpotting , having that available to submit posts to really keeps me inspired to bake, and I love seeing what other people have made each week, thanks so much Susan! Bread Baker's Apprentice Challenge

Hi all, I would loke to post my take on bagels.  I have been trying time and time again to get what I thiink is the perfect bagel.  I have kept a log of all my attempts, and have narrowed it down to a couple key elements that have to be done to get the perfect bagel. Oh and sorry for my spelling...I just can't.....

1. First is hydration.  Using King Aurther bread flour I have found that 55 to 57 percent works well.  I have tried all three 55, 56, and 57, and they all have the same outcome, 57% is just a little easier to work with. 

2. Over-proofing...My first couple attempts failed miserably, they were way too big, kind of wrinkley after baking..just not the shiney tight crust I wanted. I use an overnight ferment in the chill box just like the BBA recomends, but if they look like they are the size you want after the bake even before you boil them then they are way over proofed. In my experiance I have found that they will be almost the same size in the morning then when I put them in the the prior night.  DON'T USE THE FLOAT TEST RECOMENDED BY THE BBA, THEY WILL KEEP PROOFING IN THE REFER AND BE TOO BIG WHEN YOU BOIL THEM.  I have actually had some take on water because of the open interior structure from proofing.

3. All that being said, I use less then 1% yeast. 

4. Go and get some malted barley syrup...you will be rewarded with flavor. I got mine at whole foods. 

5. I used honey instead of sugar, I think it gives a better flavor and not only helps with color in the bake, but helps the very dry dough come together better, same with the malt syrup. 

6. Boiling water.  Less baking soda is better...more will give you a nice color, but it will taste just like a pretzle.  I use 24 cups of water with 2 tsp of soda, and a half cup of brown sugar...I was putting 2 tbsp of malted barley syrup in, but it's too expensive.  The brown sugar seems to work just as good at giving a nice flavor and color. 

7.  Use the rolling method of shaping, not the poking, you get a tighter skin and degass the dough if there is any in there.  You can see a vid on you-tube about shaping

All that being said...here is my formula. 

55% hydration. Makes 6 bagels....I had to cut it in half because of how many batches I was making.

496g KA bread flour

272g water

9.92g salt

4.50g yeast

24.8g malted barley syrup

12.4g honey...I used a light amber honey, nice dark color and a rougher flavor

1tsp olive oil....sorry I didn't convert that to grams

-Mix dry...add COLD water, and let autolyse for 20 mins.  then add the honey, syrup, and oil and bring the dough together.  Turn it out to your work surface and cover with a towel. 

-After ten minutes divide to 4.5 oz portions and roll to a balls. cover and wait ten minutes. 

-roll and shape the bagels, and put them on a sheet pan lined with parchment and sprayed with oil.  cover with plastic wrap and put in the fridge overnight. 

-next morning, pre heat to 450, get water ready,  boil for 1 min each side, top and bake for around 20 mins rotating pan half way through.

Hello,

Having had a very successful experience with boiled pretzels, I was convinced bagels were a walk in the park.  The recipe in BBA seemed approachable enough -- doesn't take too long, doesn't require lye (I know...point of contention) and is ready to bake for breakfast.  I had a mediocre experience, however, and am looking for pointers from those of you who have had great success making "true" bagels.

The good part:    The dough was easy to mix up, the shaping instructions using classic wrap method were a piece of cake and everything looked just right.  I even found malt syrup in my local Whole Foods.  My only difficulty was the baking time.  In the foreward to the recipe, Reinhardt says total baking time is 15-20 minutes, but in the recipe itself it only describes 5 minutes plus 5 more.  I think this is a typo and the second, cooler baking time should be 15 minutes.

BUT...the real reason I am writing is to ask about the crumb and general texture/mouth feel.   I found the outside to be pleasantly and acceptably chewy, but the inside was a bit to "bread-like" for me.  The bagels were almost fluffy with a fair number of air holes inside.  I am used to a denser, chewier crumb and a bit more flavor.

Is success with the chewy crumb better achieved using a starter instead of yeast?  I suspect this would go a long way toward generating the right crumb.  Is there anything else that I'm missing?

All pointers are appreciated and I'm looking forward to Bagels:  Round 2

Thanks!

MommaT

The bagels I baked yesterday, were yet another attempt in my quest for bagel perfection. :)  For the most part, I was very pleased with the results.  The bagels had really good texture and mouth-feel.  In terms of improving the recipe (bba) for next time, here is what I will try:

1. I'll add a bit more salt.

2. The flavor was nice, but I want to try to get some more depth, so, I will let the dough chill in the fridge for at least 16-18 hours.

3. I am going to try out different combinations of flours.  I used a mix of high-gluten with AP...I will try all bread flour next time.

4. This is more of a question....does anyone know how to improve the surface look of the bagel??  The bagel surface was quite bumpy and texturixed on top, and I am after a smoother look.

Thanks!

Michael

Adding pumpkin makes the texture very tender and moist, still chewy though.  You don't taste pumpkin really, taste just sweetness of it.  

I like to use a Japanese pumpkin which is sold as "Kabocha Pumpkin" at a store.   Cut in half, toast lightly, put salted butter and bite!  Mmm...

Beranbaum's bagel recipe calls for butter in the dough....have you done this?  If so, how do you compare it to bagels without butter included in the dough?  Thanks.

So, in the last few weeks I've started trying out the pretzel formula from Jeff Hamelman's Bread, with very pleasing results.  One modification I made was to boil the pretzels instead of cold-dipping them, and use 1tbsp baking soda per cup water instead of lye.  The result: a lovely mahogony colored, crispy thin yummy crust. 

Now I'm wondering if I ought to try a similar approach with my bagels.  Normally I boil them 1 minute per side, with just 1 tbsp baking soda in the whole pot of water (maybe 6-8 cups).  The results are always good, but there's room for improvement on the crust.  However, I'm not sure whether that wonderful "pretzel-y" flavor on the pretzels came from the dough, the baking soda, or the amount of time in the water.  Its a great flavor, but I wouldn't want my bagel tasting like a pretzel!

Has anyone experimented with various concentrations of baking soda in bagel water?  I've also seen it recommended to put malt in instead.  Any idea how much?  In Hamelman's bagel recipe he says to add enough to make the water look like "strong tea", but that's not terribly informative (especially since I'm working with a black non-stick pot).

Any suggestions would be appreciated!

My first attempt at bagels are shown below. Many thanks to Susan at Wild Yeast and bwraith's "sourdough bagels revisted" post for the inspiration and tips.