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100% rye

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bshuval's picture

100% Rye problems

November 15, 2011 - 8:58pm -- bshuval
Forums: 

Hi all, 

I love rye bread, especially 100% rye bread. It is, however, proving to be tricky to make. Having received Hadjiandreou's book recently, I decided to follow his recipe (multiplied by 1.5 to fit in a 4.5 by 8.5 inch pan). In the following, "rye flour" means whole-grain rye flour. 

Starter: 

PiPs's picture
PiPs

What do you do with the fruits of a couple of less than successful attempts at a Dark 100% Rye bread?

Altus!

What is altus you ask?

Old bread …namely, ground up leftover rye bread usually soaked in water.

In my case its old (ugly) dark sour 100% rye bread that is soaked overnight in water. I also crumbled dry altus and fed my rye starter portions of this along with normal rye flour.


Old bread, blended, coffee and soaker

I baked three different breads this weekend, all of them utilising altus. First was the “any grain” sourdough, this time in tins, another dark sour rye and the country bread with two starters.

The night before I prepared soakers, starters, milled and sifted the necessary flours so as to make the morning as peaceful and smooth as possible.

 

Any Grain Sourdough in tins (grains included in total flour)

Formula

Overview

Weight

%

Total dough weight

2164g

 

Total flour

1200g

100%

Total water

960g

80%

Total salt

24g

2%

Prefermented flour

240g

20%

Desired dough temperature 29°C

 

 

 

 

 

Starter build – 12 hrs 23°C

 

 

Starter

50g

20%

Rye flour

200g

83%

Altus

40g

17%

water

240g

100%

 

 

 

Soaker– 12 hrs 23°C

 

 

Wheat kibbled

120g

28%

Barley kibbled

120g

28%

Altus

120g

28%

Linseed

60g

14%

Water

420g

100%

 

 

 

Final dough 29°C

 

 

Starter

480g

88%

Soaker

840g

155%

Rye flour sifted

300g

55%

Bakers flour

240g

45%

Water

300g

55%

Salt

24g

2%

 

Method

  1. Autolyse bakers flour and water for 30min, then stir with wooden spoon for 5 minutes.
  2. Add the rest of the ingredients and mix 5-10mins. I use a scraper in my right hand to pick up and turn the dough and keep my left hand wet enough to avoid excessive sticking.
  3. Allow bulk ferment for 15-30mins.
  4. Shape and roll in rolled oats. Place into greased tins (mine were Pullman) seam side down.
  5. I proved these for one hour and 45 minutes before placing into oven with lids on for 15 minutes at 270°C  then a further hour at 200°C

 

Country bread with two starters

I deviated from the procedure described in a previous posting on these breads in two ways.

The rye starter build was a fed a portion of altus crumbs and the final dough had a 200g altus soaker consisting of equal weights of water and dark rye bread.

The altus soaker was blended with water before adding the flours for the autolyse.

 

I have again tried my hand at a 100% Sour Dark Rye. I had to alter several things for this bake. I am out of rye grains for milling so for this bake I used Four Leaf Millings biodynamic rye meal flour. I also used the altus as a soaker instead of cracked grains.

 

Dark Rye Bread Ver 3

Formula

Overview

Weight

%

Total dough weight

1600g

 

Total flour

865g

100%

Total water

735g

85%

Total salt

15g

1.7%

Prefermented flour

302g

35%

Desired dough temperature 29°C

 

 

 

 

 

Starter build – 12 hrs 23°C

 

 

Starter

50g

16%

Rye meal flour (Four Leaf Milling)

202g

67%

Altus

100g

33%

water

302g

100%

 

 

 

Soaker– 12 hrs 23°C

 

 

Altus

100g

100%

Water

100g

100%

 

 

 

Final dough 29°C

 

 

Starter

602g

129%

Soaker

200g

43%

Rye meal flour (Four Leaf Milling)

465g

100%

Water

335g

72%

Salt

15g

3%

 

Method

  1. Soaker is blended with warm water before the rest of the ingredients are added.
  2. Mix until well combined.
  3. With wet hands shape and place into greased pullman tin.
  4. After my previous cases of overproving I watched the dough like a hawk and it seemed ready after one hour. I docked and placed into a 270°C oven for 15 minutes then a further two hours at 200°C.

__

The altus gave the breads a serious flavour kick and moistness to the crumb. The country bread’s crumb was significantly darker from last weeks bake due to the added altus and it was a delight to see the dark flecks of past rye failures given a new life.

… and again I wait with trepidation for the opportunity to cut the dark rye and peer inside…

cheers, Phil

p.s. A little side story ... My partner managed to create her own version of altus unbeknownst to her when she put a rye crust wrapped in a tea towel through the washing machine. Lets just say with toilet training children in the house a rye crust wasn't the first thing that came to mind when she saw the brown lump amongst the towels.

 

 

 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Rye Stories: Daisy_A

I love rye bread and I'm not alone. When faced with a continental buffet my dh will make a bee line for the pumpernickel. As far as rye in mixed grain breads go I always feel there's room for a little more. So it's odd that it's taken me so long to try a 100% rye. I've been working my way towards it but had heard rumours that it might be troublesome. I was worried that it might implode or explode, either crack all over like 'a wedding cake left out in the rain' (as the poet W.H. Auden so famously described his own face), or fall in on itself like the ground over a hidden stream. 

Over the last few weeks, however, I have tried 3 100% rye formulae, the Borodinsky and seeded ryes from Andrew Whitley's Bread Matters and Mini Oven's favourite 100% rye (Bread Matters pp. 168-171, pp. 167-168; Mini Oven here). In the end, given that my rye starter is much more stable and strong than my wheat starters, these ryes have probably given me less trouble than the average sourdough. 

I did not adapt the formulae substantially so what follows are a few notes on method and taste. Bakers wanting to look into the Melmerby Borodinsky outside of Whitley's text might follow up on Andy/ananda's post here about the different Village Bakery versions, including an 85% rye. Andy's post includes a formula. There is a great discussion of Mini's formula on her original thread and in other TFL posts. 

The first 100% rye I baked was the Borodinsky from Bread Matters. When I made this I was running down my stock of Dove's Farm rye to try Bacheldre Mill but could not immediately source the latter. I had to make multiple calculations in order to keep my stock rye going and put together the formula without running out of flour and was congratulating myself on stretching my pea brain maths to the limit when I blanked out and went over on the water. Well that taught me to bake at the end of a long day…

The loaf came out a lovely golden brown but I thought I would have to spend the night on the couch waiting for it to bake out. After cooling the top sagged ever so slightly, like a cotton clothesline, due to the slight overhydration,  but the taste was superb. 

The second Borodinsky was made to share at an art and bread tasting event. Happily every crumb was eaten but I was so preoccupied with getting it to the venue without a hiccup that I forgot to take shots of it. So the elegant still life below is courtesy of event photographer Julian Hughes - thanks Julian.

© Julian Hughes, 2010

The second time I made this bread and after reading up on ways to manage rye, I added 40g extra water and 40g extra rye to the sour after 12 hours.  This was in part to add sweetness to the final bread and in part to allow the high hydration (1.6.3.), sour to mature for another 12 hours without becoming too acidic.

After the first Borodinsky I was able to swap to Bacheldre Mill. This is a much stronger flour than the Dove's Farm and I've found it suits the high hydration of Whitley's formula well. Crust and crumb have baked out well in all loaves made with the Mill flour. I find the crust tends to have a grainy finish due to the high bran content but I like that look, particularly as the crust also tends to be very golden. The flour has a beautiful, nutty flavour.

The next bread I attempted was the seeded rye from Bread Matters. I did make some adjustments to this.  I used 100% sunflower seeds instead of sunflower and pumpkin. This was largely due to availability. I hope to be able to dry seeds from the autumn squashes to use in bread but had none at hand when I made this. Having struggled to keep the coriander seeds on the Borodinsky rye while turning it upside down regularly to check internal temperature I also felt creating a sunflower seed coating for the seeded rye, as Whitley suggests, was beyond my skills. I omitted it but think it would actually be a nice touch. 

I also added a teaspoon of organic blackstrap molasses because I had just bought some at the whole food coop and wanted to play with it. I though this might soften the edge of quite a sour rye but given the sour notes of blackstrap itself it probably made it taste even sourer!  I have used malt syrup or honey since.

The second time I made this bread I also included a second build of 80g of flour to the sour after 12 hours to allow it to go the full 24 hours without becoming too acidic. I then reduced the flour in the final batter by the corresponding amount. The flavour was amazing, similar to that of an aged Manchego cheese. 

My slightly adapted version of Andrew's formula was:

Rye sour

160g of rye sour at 1.6.3 (fermented 12 hours then 80g more flour added)

Final batter

All rye sour   240g

Rye flour     160g

Sea salt           5g

Molasses          5g

Sunflower seeds 100g

Water 140g

Total 650g


Mini Oven's favourite rye. What can I say? It is a super-delicious formula. When I first joined TFL I used to gaze on Mini's post in wonderment. Even though Mini describes the process extremely clearly I couldn't imagine myself attempting the bread. Having and reread read posts on rye from Mini and other TFLers, including Andy, Hans Joakim, Karin, Nico, Khalid and Larry, among others, I finally felt I could attempt it and it went fine! Thanks all for your postings - they were very helpful! Sorry if I've missed any other 'ryesperts' - you were helpful as well!

I started with a small loaf, working the formula up from 60g of starter and added 2 tablespoons (5g) of mixed seeds, with an emphasis on caraway. Based on Mini's (1:3.5:4.16), formula this gave me a nice round 210g cold water, 250g flour to the 60g starter, for a final loaf of around 570g. I also added altus for the first time in any recipe - 20g of mixed grain sourdough with I dessert spoon of warm water and I tsp of honey. I mashed this into a paste in a pestle and mortar then folded it into the final batter. This formula yielded a loaf that was beautifully golden, with a gorgeous aroma, which was sweeter than those from Bread Matters. I will definitely do a larger loaf next time. We managed to wait 24 hours to try it but it was gone in just over a day! Thanks Mini, it was gorgeous! 

 

© Daisy_A 2010 I love to share bread stories and read other bakers' posts about bread. If you republish this page for 'fair use' please acknowledge authorship and provide a link to the original URL. Please note, however, I do not support the unauthorized and unattributed publishing of my text and images on for-profit websites..

SulaBlue's picture

Seed Culture gone awry?

March 23, 2009 - 3:22pm -- SulaBlue

I started a rye seed culture on Saturday, using Reinhart's method in BBA. Day 1 it looked like a lump of playdough. I did the Day 2 additions and, despite the note in the book that I'd likely see no more than a 50% rise, the thing doubled. I discarded half (eyeballed it as the batteries on my scale died right after I got my flour and water additions measured out) and added the Day 3 flour and water. This was around 11am, and so far I've seen almost no rise.

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