I tried Daniel Leader's recipe for a whole wheat miche over the weekend, except that I doubled it as I like massive rounds. OK, I also added a little bit of fine rye for taste (~7% bakers percentage). The first rise of my dough was quicker than what he described and it formed a nice round. In the basket it proofed very well and might have increased a bit more than double. When I turned it out, the size was still good. But when I tried to score it, the round collapsed a bit. Usually this is not a problem as the oven spring sorts it out (Genzano country bread for example). However, this round had very little oven spring and did not really open up on the cuts. The crumb was quite dense and the bread felt heavy for its size. The taste was good.

Was it overproofed? I was a bit rushed and turned the oven up high, but the internal temperature was correct. Are whole wheats just so much heavier that it cannot get up at this size? Any ideas would be appreciated. I'll try and get a photo if there is anything left at home ;)

I recently found a recipe by JMonkey for Whole Wheat Buttermilk bread that he posted on July 10, 2006.  A search of TFL will quickly locate the original post for you, and I would recommend that you read it.  The bread he made was based on one of  the recipes from Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book, but JMonkey did a comparison of baking it "straight" and baking with a biga.  His success with the biga version inspired me to try it myself.  I have had very little success with whole grain baking in the past.  Most of my breads were much too heavy, and often had a slightly bitter taste.

JMonkey's recipe was:

***********************************************************************

Biga
5 ¼ ounces -- 150 grams -- 1 cup water
250 grams -- 8 3/4 ounces -- 1 3/4 cup whole wheat flour
1/8 tsp instant yeast

Final dough
All of the biga
1 ½ tsp instant yeast
4 3/4 ounces -- 135 grams-- 3/4 cup warm water
¼ cup honey
1 ¼ cup cold buttermilk
580 grams / 20.5 ounces -- 4 3/4 cup whole wheat flour
2 tsp salt
2 Tbs butter

The night before, make up the biga. Knead it until it forms a relatively smooth dough, and then cover it to sit overnight for about 12-14 hours.

The next day, tear the biga into about 12 pieces and mix it up with the rest of the ingredients. Start kneading -- it'll take about 600 strokes and 20 minutes, but once you're finished, the dough should stretch nicely into a translucent, whitish pane, flecked with bits of bran. This dough may start a bit sticky, but should lose the stickiness and become simply tacky about halfway through. Add water or flour as necessary.

Form the dough into a ball and put it into bowl or bucket. Cover it, and allow the dough to rise for about 90 minutes or so. Poke the dough with a wet finger. When the indention starts to fill in very, very slowly, the dough is risen.

Gently degas the dough, and tuck it back into a tight ball for the second rise. Fold the dough if you wish, but really, after 600 strokes, the dough shouldn't need any additional strength. Once it has risen, divide the dough into two and shape it into sandwich loaves. Place the loaves into pre-greased 8.5 x 4.5 pans. Cover the pans with plastic for the final rise.

Preheat the oven to 350 degree F. (I like my oven a little hotter than Laurel does -- she prefers 325). Once the dough is risen and has crested one to two inches above the side of the pan in the center, slash the loaves as you wish with a serrated knife or razor blade. Personally, I prefer a single slash down the middle, but do whatever makes you happy. Place them in the oven and steam it if you wish (I find it helps with oven spring quite a bit, even with panned loaves), and bake for about 35-40 minutes, turning once to ensure even baking.

The loaves are done when they register 195-200 in the center. Let them cool for one hour before slicing.

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I modified the recipe by:

• Using unsulfured molasses instead of honey (I was out of honey)
• Kneading was done with my Kitchen Aid stand mixer until the dough was very elastic and had a good "window pane"
• Doing a stretch-and-fold at 45 and 90 minutes, followed by another 1 1/2 hour rise.  The second rise was huge.

The resulting loaves weren't quite as high as JMonkeys, but the crust was beautiful, the crumb light and moist, and the flavor was absolutely wonderful.  There was no bitter taste, and the molasses made a wonderful substitute for the honey.  It also added to the aroma of the bread.  Although the proofed bread had raised to about two inches above the level of the loaf pans, the final loaf actually fell very slightly.  There was great initial oven spring (a water pan was used in the oven and the loaf pans were set on a preheated stone), so I was a little surprised with the fall.  The bread, however, did not seem to suffer in any way.  The crumb doesn't show unusual areas of density that I have seen in other breads that have fallen during baking.  The photo of the crumb below doesn't quite do it justice as I sliced the bread while it was still a bit warm (I couldn't wait any longer!). Any suggestions concerning the fall are more than welcome.

All in all, this is a delightfully light and flavorful whole wheat bread that will be baked at our house on a regular basis. It makes a wonderful sandwich and toasting bread.

Hey guys, last weekend I made the whole wheat focaccia rustic bread from Peter Reinharts Whole Grain Breads.

here is the recipe...

4 cups whole wheat flour
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
1 1/4 teaspoons of yeast
2 cups plus 2 tablesppons of water at room temp.
1 1/2 teaspoons honey agave nectar sugar or brown sugar (optional)
1 1/2 tablespoons olive oil
extra flour for adjustments

1 If mixing by hand place all of the ingredients except the extra flour and the olive oil in a bowl and mix for 2-3 minutes. Keep a bowl of water hand and dip the mixing spoon in the water from time to time to keep the dough from sticking. Use a plastic bowl scraper, also dip it in water, to continually scrape down the bowl. You can also use wet hands to mix the dough. The dough will be sticky but fairly smooth; adjust the water or flour as needed. dd the olive oil and mix for another 14 seconds, long enough only to coat the dough. Let the dough rest in the bowl for 5 minutes, uncovered, and then mix again for 1 minute. the dough will be smooth and stronger, but it will still be sticky. If it is too wet, meaning it won't hold shape, add some additional flour.
Place the dough in a oiled bowl and and allow it to ferment for 8-12  hours or within 3 days. The next day pull the dough out of the fridge and allow it to thaw for 4 hours before turning out onto a heavily flour work surface for shaping.

I choose Ciabatta shape and it makes 2 ciabatta, although I made 4 mini ones. (if anyone wants shaping instructions just ask and i'll type them up too.) After shaping allow them to rise for about 45 minutes or 1 1/2 times its original size.

Prehead your oven to 500 and put them in on a peel or using parchment paper onto a baking stone or an upside down baking sheet. I used a upside baking sheet with parchment. Once the loaves are in drop the temperature down to 450 and steam the oven using a spray mister or 1 cup of hot water.

bake it for 20 minutes and rotate the bread 180degrees and then allow to bake for another 15 to 30 minutes unitl its golden brown on all sides and sounds hollow when thumped and registers atleast 200F in the center and pulls away clean.

Cool for 1 hour....thats if you can handle it...

There were a few things I had to alter and did differently  in this and i'll list it for you.

I was short of flour for this ( I weighed by grams) So I ended up using maybe 20 grams worth or handful or two of all purpose flour for adjustment. I also added some vital wheat gluten and ascorbic acid as well. I figured hey its so wet its not like this is gonna dry it up at all. I'd say a few grams of each for the AA and VW.

Also....I did 3 stretch and folds before putting it in the fridge for the overnight fermentation. I did them at 20 minute intervals after the first 45 minutes of the initial mixing, although i'm sure after 20-30 would be just fine. I did it on a watered surface rather than using flour.

I hope that covers it guys....the ciabatta tasted great the crust was nutty and the inside was just sweet enough but not too sweet for a hearth bread. Great taste and wonderful texture...

Oh Another note...I did use some agave nectar it recommends 10 grams worth but I only used half so 5 grams. I'm not sure how much that would equal to in terms of teaspoons...I'm thinking maybe half a teaspoon. It wasn't all that strong in the final product just sweet enough to take off the somewhat bland or bitter edge of whole wheat

oh yeah....

PICUTRES :)

Hi all, I did a search for coops in the Portland area through the TFL search engine, but could not find any threads.

I live in Newberg Oregon about 19 miles from Portland and close to Salem.  I am looking for good places to buy Whole Grains in bulk.

Does anyone who lives in or near Portland know of a coop or grain supplier with clean, high quality grains that is reasonable in price?

Thank you,
Dennis

I took a bread class and she did freeform bread on a cookine sheet but I have been doing bread pans.  She was a big bosch person but I found the prices better for the Nutrimll and I really like the options of fine to coarse.  I have been doing in the middle of fine and coarse. 

I have been having better results with the whole wheat but when I do the soft wheat it never comes out right. I just bought a 50 gal bucket of hard red and hard white wheat from Praire Hills and am going to try to make bread today.    I thought since I have better results with the hard red that the hard white might work better plus it was cheaper.  I am using commercial (red star) yeast and have never used the sour dough starter.  I didn't know that you should be using commercial white flour with my breads.  I think that could be a reason that it is so dense.  When I made bread just from bread recipes with commercial flour it used to come out fine all the time.

Please let me know of a good recipe to try and what I should be doing.

Flamingobabe

Hi fellow foodies!

After being at this for the last 2 months I have finally found my passion.  My whole life has been focused on achieving a healthy balance - my first passion beyond family is good whole food that enhances our lives, rather than weighing us down - digestively and energetically.

My question for you is - how worth it would having a high quality mixer like a DLX be?  After studying this forum, along with as many books I can find - it seems that it may actually be worth it to grind my own flour.   The idea of mail ordering flour does not sit well with me - because by the time I get around to using all the whole wheat it will use a great deal of nutrition.  If I order the wheat berries in bulk - I could justify the cost because it is actually cheaper if I grind it myself, and healthier.

I also make fresh pasta, and homemade smoothies.  Is it hard to learn how to grind your own flour?  And is it possible to achieve the same kind of flour as french flour?  I definitely want to focus on whole grain, but we all enjoy a crusty french baguette fairly often.

We are not huge on deserts - but I do bake cookies, and never buy storebought.  I am cooking for 6 - 6 breadhounds.  We have been through25 pounds of flour in the last 2 weeks (of course some of that was gift giving of fresh bread) - 

Thank you for any thoughts - 

Anna

Hi, I've been wanting to ask this question for some time but thought I would search the forum for an answer but haven't seemed to stumble onto it...

I've been making bread for ages and have recently started doing it again.  I make WW bread with a standard recipe of 4 cups all purpose unbleached bread flour and 2 cups of Bobs Red Mill 100% WW flour, yeast, sugar etc.

All my loaves have looked excellent, but after a day or so, the bread seems very dry to taste and texture.  I am storing my bread in double lock freezer bags so I don't think they are getting exposed to air.  Also, I don't believe I am baking them too long since they are lightly golden brown when I take them out of the oven.

Does anyone else experience this with their bread, if not then what are you doing to keep your bread moist and soft?

Thanks in advance to fielding an old bread maker question which by the way, seems to have devolved into a newbie bread maker.

Dennis

Hey guys I was just wondering if I should do a stretch and fold to the whole grain version of pain al ancienne ??

I figure that a little stretch and fold before I go to bed tonight could help out with the gluten development????

Does anyone got any advice for this one? Its the first time I've done this one and I'm kinda nervous to see how it'll come out.

Just how wet should this dough be??? Like could you try describing your opinion of the consistency??

Any  or expertise or opinion would be greatly appreciated

thanks in advance

Hi,

I've been experimenting with several recipes to find that elusive combination of healthful grains and light enough texture for the kids (and the hubby).  I stumbled upon a combination recipe that seems to be working and wanted to share.

My husband is very picky about multigrain breads.  He wants the health benefits, but doesn't want that crunchy grainy feel.  He often finds my multigrain breads too dry.  The other day, quite by accident, I stumbled upon a solution that he'd like to see as our "daily bread".

How to start?...

Much to my experimenter's chagrin, my family love Leader's Classic Country style Hearth Loaf from "Bread Alone".  This is his learning loaf and it is a very good, easy to succeed at loaf.  Twist #1:  I usually make it in two loaf pans so that it is easier to use for lunchbox sandwiches.  My family love it.  My 7 y.o. son and husband both say it reminds them of the wheat bread we used to buy at our local store in Cape Town, South Africa, where we lived until recently.  They like to call it my "South African Bread".  

Twist #2:  I decided on a whim to make this bread by replacing the poolish with an equal weight of 100% hydration sourdough starter.  My starter has a pretty balanced flavor and isn't too sour, so this results in a wonderful tasting bread that is moist and has keeping power.

OK - so after receiving BBA for Christmas, I decided to try out the Multigrain Bread Extraordinaire recipe and mix up the soaker.  Instead of the rolled oats and wheat bran, I substituted an equal amount of Bob's Red Mill 6 grain cereal.  The next morning, I forgot which recipe I was following (had packed away the books the night before) and had to quickly mix up the dough and get out of the house.  I mixed my old standby (see above) and added in the soaker.  No change to the recipe for the Country style Hearth Loaf, save using a bit more flour than I normally do.  Voila! Twist #3.  I was so skeptical, but happily surprised when DH proclaimed this "the best bread yet"!   I have since made this many times with the same positive result, even varying the soaker ingredients.  

I've yet to try it with another bread dough recipe, so I don't know if this technique of just adding the soaker to any old loaf will work, but the results here were so positive I am definitely going to give it a try!

I only wish I were a better photographer - today's loaves turned out beautifully...not only did the starter respond beautifully in the sunny kitchen, but I'm learning to tame my lame, so the slashing worked well and looked good.

Cheers!

MommaT

I've been trying to make Reinhart's 100% whole wheat sandwich bread. This is the first bread I've tried to bake outside a bread machine, so I don't have a good handle on what I should expect at each stage --- and whether Reinhart's dough should feel different than normal bread doughs. So I was hoping some of you could help me troubleshoot. :) Any suggestions or ideas would be much appreciated.

I've been getting a very dense and gummy loaf. It's 3.25" tall, so it just barely sticks out above the loaf pan.... the book says it's supposed to rise 1.5" above the pan. That said, it does have a sweet and complex flavor.

I've been trying to follow Reinhart as closely as I can. I measured by weight and used King Arthur White Wheat Flour; I had to substitute soy milk for milk. I mixed in the stand mixer where he says I can, and then I did some hand kneading as he indicates.

So I have a few ideas about what could have went wrong, please let me know which of these sound most plausible.

1. Not enough baking time. At 350 degrees, I baked for 20 minutes, rotated, and baked another 20 minutes. I don't have a thermometer.
    
2. Not enough proofing time. Reinhart says it's supposed to rise 1.5" above the pan. I think I got impatient after 50 minutes and just put it in the oven.
    
3. Not enough rising time. Reinhart says to wait for it to double in size.... but I'm not sure what that means in a glass bowl. Double in height? Double in diameter? Double in volume?
    
4. Not enough gluten development => not enough kneading? My dough always seemed very wet and sticky. I added flour to try and compensate, but I was watching some videos at Sourdough Home, and they say the dough should start out wet and sticky, but kneading should make it more smooth and subtle. Maybe I just didn't knead it enough? I also noticed that dough seems to look normal at first, but then after a few minutes in the stand mixer with the dough hook, it seems to get "wetter", if that makes any sense...
    

Or maybe it's some other problem entirely??  Anyway, any suggestions or ideas would be most welcome. I was thinking about maybe trying to bake some simpler breads first so that I have a better idea of what to expect.

Thank you,
Daniel