A while ago I found a post about phytic acid on this site that got me researching the subject.  I had never heard of it before and wanted to be as informed as possible.  I have since found loads of information but still have some questions.  Since the folks who follow these forums are so amazingly informed on just about everything, I thought I would pick some brains.  Here are my questions:

1.  I have read that both a sponge/soaker and using a recipe that calls for dairy (yogurt, milk, etc) will properly neutralize and/or compensate for the phytic acid in whole wheat, leaving vitamins & minerals free for absorption.  The question is how much?  Is a 6 hour sponge as good as a 10 hour? 12 hour? How much calcium is needed to neutralize the phytic acid? Will milk do, or is yogurt preferable? Does the fat content of the milk make a difference?

2.  I read that a warm, acidic soak (adding vinegar to the water) recreates an environment similar to soil and better allows the grain to begin the breakdown of the phytic acid, a type of pre-digestion. (see quote)

"The acidic medium contains friendly bacteria such as lactobacilli, enzymes and other beneficial organisms that degrade and render inactive the phytic acid and enzyme inhibitors. This warm acid water activates the enzyme phytase which also neutralizes the phytic acid in the grain. Phytate degradation in the stomach and small intestine also occurs as a result of this activated dietary phytase. Furthermore, the acidic solution also helps to predigest the grain resulting in all the less work for your digestive system.When these enzyme inhibitors are broken down in this soaking grains process, they can no longer hold hostage the many enzymes within the seed. The enzymes can then be released, they can proliferate and they can work their magic."

The sponge that I use (which I would imagine is comprable to the soaker this person uses) does not contain vinegar, but does contain yogurt.  Should I switch to one that uses vinegar instead?

3. Are there any of you out there who think worrying about phyic acid is a joke? :)  If so, do you have research to back you up? (I'd like to read it!)

I know this is some pretty crazy questioning, but I am just the type that likes to draw on every resource available to be as informed as possible about what I am preparing for my family. I have found one or two sources for answers to some of these questions, but not enough to truly consider it "fact" if you know what I mean.

I made Dan Lepard’s Golspie Loaf from his Handmade Loaf book this weekend. It is 100% whole wheat except for the starter which the recipe says to do with either barley or rye flour. I actually did a whole wheat starter. A layer of coarse oatmeal (pinhead or steel cut) is on the crust and then it is baked in a round cake pan. The recipe instructs to score the loaf all the way through the dough to the bottom of the pan so that it can be pulled apart into sections after baking, but I did not score at all for fear of completely deflating what appeared to be a very wet and volatile dough. The recipe includes 3/4 teaspoon of fresh yeast, which I included because my starter didn’t seem very active at the time. However, Next time I will omit this and just use starter to see if it is really necessary or not.

I think I may have over-proofed after shaping because when I uncovered it and put it in the oven, the dough sank slightly. Despite this, my loaf turned out nicely and had a much more open crumb that I thought it would have and than what the picture in the book suggests. It also seemed to have a more open crumb than any other 100% whole wheat loaf I have ever made which was unexpected and reassuring.

Will post pictures.

Hi all,

This is my first post here, so Hello!

I've just recently borrowed the Peter Reinhart book on Whole Wheat bread baking from the library and am starting to play with the base recipe. My first try didn't work out the greatest- not much rise in it, but I'm trying again and will keep at it!

My question is in regards to taking the Biga out of the fridge 2 hours before mixing together the final dough. In the recipe I make the Big & Soaker on day one then the rest on day two. My problem is that I need to start on the dough making first thing in the morning which means I either need to a) take the biga out of the fridge before I go to bed at night or b) just take it out in the morning and mix it through cold.

Given that it's pretty cold overnight at this time of year here I'm thinking option a might be best, but what do other people thing?

I know I might not get a reply before tonight, but even so it's worth asking, and will be interesting to see people's thoughts anyway. I'll let you know how it goes whichever way I choose to do it!

Regards,

Ross

I made this yesterday, but had company, and couldn't post till today.  This is a Transitional Hearth Rye Seigle (greater than 50% Rye) recipe out of his whole grain book page 181.  How does this look to you?  The starter ingredients were to sit from 4-6 hours, and poss up to 8.  I let it go 6 1/2, just to be sure it rose enough.  It was hard to tell, sitting in a large bowl.  After the remainder ingredients were added, it acted just as the recipe indicated, and became a beautiful dough to work with, and looked very nice during the rising time.

I'm afraid without a couche, it spread a little too much laterally.  I also made them into two batards instead of one large one, reducing the baking time in half.  Internal temp reached 200 deg in 20 minutes

The final taste was terrific, and tastes even better tonight, as I just had two slices.  Honestly, I'm happy with this, but wonder if there are any other recommendations I should follow?

Can wheat berries be used whole in bread like cracked wheat (bulgar)?  Or must they be ground first? 

My 1st Whole wheat baguette

Hi , again!

This time, i wanted to attempt a whole wheat baguette. It didn't turn out as i hoped but i'll tweak the technique and ingredients next time to achieve better outcome.

To begin with i'd like to list the recommended steps i already followed for whole grains:

1- I have prepared a biga (75% hyd) and left it to ferment for 2 hrs, dflated it, and then refrigerated  for 4 days!)

2- I have used some milk powder (2 Tblsp)

3- I mixed in two tblsp of gluten into the final mixture.

4- the final dough was 70-75% hydration.

5- after 1st rise, i did not deflate, i just scrapped carefully the dough into some floured workspace, and began gently shaping (by folding ends and forming a roll by sealing seams) and then rolled into a baguette.

6- I heard 1 or 2 poppings of gas as i slashed the dough after final fermentation.

7- I steamed the oven with a pan under the the rack.

8- I did not spray the baguettes with water prior to inserting them into the oven.

9- the oven was preheated to 470F and then reduced to 425F for baking.

The outcome: Well, I couldn't wait for the bread to cool, so i cut it. It tasted well, and heavenly with butter!!!. The holes resulting from fermentation weren't uniform across the baguette length. But the crust was crunchy and crumb was light (for a whole grain).

Tell me, oh wise internet users, could i achieve better results? Pictures as below:

I've been moving closer and closer to a full whole grain bread as the daily staple.  I've been buying some sprouted grain breads to test out what I like and don't like.  It seems like all the breads with a higher content of sprouted grains  (intact) seem much drier, with less structure than other versions.

Anyone know a recipe for a good combination of whole sprouted grains: whole grain flour?  My family also likes adding things like nuts, seeds, cooked barley etc.

I've been testing out some of P. Reinhart's Whole Grain recipies from the Whole Grain book, and really like them.  

Hi , again!

This time, i wanted to attempt a whole wheat baguette. It didn't turn out as i hoped but i'll tweak the technique and ingredients next time to achieve better outcome.

To begin with i'd like to list the recommended steps i already followed for whole grains:

1- I have prepared a biga (75% hyd) and left it to ferment for 2 hrs, dflated it, and then refrigerated  for 4 days!)

2- I have used some milk powder (2 Tblsp)

3- I mixed in two tblsp of gluten into the final mixture.

4- the final dough was 70-75% hydration.

5- after 1st rise, i did not deflate, i just scrapped carefully the dough into some floured workspace, and began gently shaping (by folding ends and forming a roll by sealing seams) and then rolled into a baguette.

6- I heard 1 or 2 poppings of gas as i slashed the dough after final fermentation.

7- I steamed the oven with a pan under the the rack.

8- I did not spray the baguettes with water prior to inserting them into the oven.

9- the oven was preheated to 470F and then reduced to 425F for baking.

The outcome: Well, I couldn't wait for the bread to cool, so i cut it. It tasted well, and heavenly with butter!!!. The holes resulting from fermentation weren't uniform across the baguette length. But the crust was crunchy and crumb was light (for a whole grain).

Tell me, oh wise internet users, could i achieve better results? Pictures as below:

I have a friend who has asked me to make a seven grain bread with sliced grapes and raisins. Now it is easy enough for me to make a seven grain bread and to add raisins, but I do not ever recall seeing a recipe that included sliced grapes. Has anyone seen or is familiar with a bread like that?

Hey Everybody,

   I've just recently returned to the States from a stint in Germany, where I fell in love with Roggen Vollkornbrot.  It's this heavy, dark, moist rye bread, with large grains and a slightly sour taste- in Germany, they cut it thin and eat it with cheese for breakfast/dinner.  I've been looking everywhere for a recipe, but most of what I've found is for bread with a lighter texture and taste, including those recipes on the previous post in this forum about Klosterbrot.  This has quite a different texture from your average rye loaf, and is extremely toothsome and dense.  Does anyone know the bread I'm talking about and perhaps could contribute a recipe?

Thanks!