I'm having trouble getting the rise I'd like in a few different no-knead sourdough recipes.  In fact, I'm not even sure how long to let the dough proof.  Some recipes call for an hour or two, others up to 4 to 6 hours.  I'm definitely not seeing my dough double.  Any ideas how I can remedy this?

Hi, 

I'm quite new to this, and really happy I found this site. My starter is about a month old and I'm having some problems with a dense kind of spongy crumb on the loaves I am baking. I'm hoping someone can make some suggestions so I can get a better result.

Some background:

I feed my starter about every 3-4 days (kept in the fridge), and I feed it a 1:1 ratio of BF/cold water. 

The starter shows signs of life, but doesn't double per say in the fridge. It does show bubbles on the sides of the container and on the top -- so I think it's doing OK.  About 2 weeks ago my starter looked really inactive so I gave it a boost by adding a packet of red star dry active yeast to it. I've made several loaves of bread since then -- and the ones I made immediately following the introduction of the DAY had the best rise but the worst taste (not like sourdough at all, but like white bread).

Since then I've baked at least 4-5 loaves of bread, so I think my wild yeast is starting to take back over. It has a more sour smell to than before, and the bread has plenty of rise.

My routine:

I use 500g starter, 300g bread flour, 91g of water and 16g of kosher salt when baking a loaf.  I mix this in a KA mixer with a dough hook for about 1.5--2 minutes and proof for two hours. I form a loaf without punching it down, by gathering the sides of the ball together to make a smooth round loaf and proof another hour. I'm baking it 15M at 450F, covering it with foil (my oven has a lot of hot spots) baking another 15 minutes at same temp, then basting it with clarified butter and baking at 400F for another 30M.

The crumb seems weird -- hard to explain but it is sort of dense even though there are lots of uneven sized holes in it. Spongy almost. Not entirely pleasant to eat. Not bad, but not the same thing I've experienced with loaves purchased from a bakery.

Any suggestions would be appreciated! (thanks in advance to any readers/replies)

PS: Here's a picture of the bread loaves themselves. Picture of the crumb below.

A couple of weeks ago I made a first attempt at making a starter. Unfortunately after about a week it developed a very strong acetone smell which, after much googling, I found out meant the starter was underfed. Opinions seem to be divided on whether or not a starter can be rescued from such a state but I decided to throw it out and start fresh. Before I make another attempt, though, I'd really appreciate any insight into what exactly went wrong, so it doesn't happen again.

Some basic info:

- I started with a combination of whole rye flour and plain flour, gradually reducing the amount of rye starting from day 3.

- I was feeding the starter every 12 hours at a 1:1:1 ratio for the first 5-6 days, then I switched to 1:2:2.

- Temperature in my apartment hovers around 20C, which I think should be fine.

- I first noticed the acetone smell around day 8, I think. Until that point the starter hadn't been doubling between feedings, but it started to do so around the same time it developed the smell.

What I don't understand is this: how is it possible that I was underfeeding my starter when it showed no signs of doubling for so many days? If the yeast were so hungry for more food I'd expect the starter to double over the 12 hours (isn't that a sign that the yeast have eaten all their food?) - but until the smell developed it never did. As far as I can tell I had no way of knowing it was being underfed before it was too late. I was also feeding at 1:2:2 at that point, giving the yeast twice the amount of food even before they started doubling the starter (at the risk of diluting the colony, I guess) - and still it was too little? And at 20C I wouldn't expect the starter to be so active - from everything I've read that seems to be a rather low temperature for developing a starter, so wouldn't it take the yeast more time to go through so much food, rather than less?

I'm sure I am missing something here... anyone know what could've went wrong?

I made the BBA Italian bread with good results, but it stales so quickly.  I've been redoing almost every recipe in SD just to help with keeping fresh, but I thought there was too much sour taste this time.  Is there a way to tame down the flavor, while maintaining the benefit of the longer freshness?  I've heard some of you talk about slicing your loaves right away and freezing--just taking out what you need each day.  I guess I can do that if I have to, but I love having a loaf in my bread box for a few days, always ready.

Hi everyone

I've embarked into the world of sourdough baking and am running into the same problem with every loaf: my bread isn't rising properly during its final proofing. Everything looks healthy and rises well during the first two proofings but once I shape it/put it in the tin, it barely rises. I'd love some advice from some seasoned (haha) bakers on what I could be doing wrong.

Teegstar

Hello All,

Am new in town and was hoping to find a recipe for "San Francisco" Sourdough like my mother used to make. I'm not sure if she made "true" SFSD, but I recall that it had a lovely, wide open crumb and thin but crisp crust and rose like a dream (she may have used a combination of sourdough starter and active yeast). She made boules which had lovely oven spring and held their shape, without proofing in any kind of basket or pan. Am sure she used all white AP "Robin Hood" brand flour from the US, but am not sure that's essential. Can anyone help with a good recipe?

Also (and this is the embarassing bit), I live in Rotterdam, Netherlands, and it is hard to find decent "hard" flour here with a high gluten content. Can anyone recommend the some decent hard flour which I can readily find here? Ironically, even though the best bread I have ever eaten was in France, I haven't produced a good loaf since I arrived in Europe! Average Europeans do not tend to bake anything these days and flour in the supermarkets comes in one varierty -- low-gluten and in small bags. Does the origin of the flour even matter? Are European-grown flours OK? I do have access to ONE decent French-style bakery here (the Netherlands is not France as far as the food is concerned), but $5 a loaf is killing me and the stingy baker won't even disclose the name or origin of the flour he uses.

If anyone is familiar with European breads, I have to admit I'm not overly crazy about Poilane (too big, too barnyardy, too sour for me) but I do like Paul's pain de compagne as an every day loaf. Unfortunately the only Pauls in the Netherlands is at the airport! So...I'm reduced to my baker's blackmail or trying to perfect my own loaf at home (and my LITERAL "Dutch oven" is so small I at first thought it was a microwave!). Any advice on how to circumvent stingy bakers and tiny "Dutch" ovens appreciated.

Thanks,

KittyKat

I derived this formula by combining from several sources and doing some rounding.

Preferment:

3 ounces starter (100 % hydration)

8 ounces KA AP flour

8 ounces water

Mix and let stand overnight

Dough:

Preferment

12 1/2 ounces flour

5 1/2 ounces water

2 t salt

1t yeast

68% hydration

Mix in bowl and let stand for 30 minutes. Knead and rest, knead and rest; for a while.  I lost track.

Let rise in bowl for an hour, fold let rise another 2 hours.  Form rolls, let rise 1 1/2 hours.

Bake at 450.

I think they came out ok, I was hoping for a more open crumb.  At least I have reached the enviable beginners stage where the mistakes are edible.  The last sourdough bread went into the trash. 

After eating a test bread the rest went in the freezer. We will split one every night for our dinner next week.  I normally reheat 10-15 minutes in a 350 oven. 

I debated until the last second about adding the yeast.  The preferment was working nicely but I chickened out.

Continuing the theme of using leftover starter:

This morning I added 3 ounces each of flour and water to 3 ounces of starter.  This evening I used 3 ounces to make a preferment for tommorow's bread.  I retained 2 ounces of starter, fed it and put it in the refrigerator. 

The rest of the starter I mixed with Bisquick until I had a "drop biscuit" like consistancy. Plopped it onto the spider and smoothed it out with the back of a wet spoon.  I put it straight into the oven at 450.  The main purpose was to have the biscuit to make bread pudding  (see off topic post if interested) but it wouldn't do not to test it before going to all that trouble.

A little butter and orange marmalade for me and grape jelly for my wife.  It was truely delicious.  The crust was nice and crispy.

Been Googling the heck outta Stiff Starters when i first stumbled across the term. All my life, thought there was ONLY a LIQUID starter........silly me!

I have read everything google sent me to here, plus wild yeast. and STILL have questions. AND abit of confusion.

I read in one place that a liquid starter will give you the most sour. and i read STIFF is more sour. I have vacationed several times in San Fran, and have found i really like a REAL sour bread. YUM. I also read in places that all starters go THRU the san fran stage in their development. ?

also, i have read on SEVERAL ways of maintaining these different starters. From several diff. web sites. 

can you spell CORNFUSED !

i have yet to read a thread on maintainging diff. starters all in ONE thread !

i just started a stiff starter, and its proofing(?) atm.  Rising nice, and should raise to twice its size in 8 hours i have read, that it should. And when it domes, and starts to collaspe is when you want to use it.

am i on the right track so far?

but i don't bake 2-3 times a week. Lucky to do that a month. Tho want to change that up. So i let my stiff starter dome, i guess.  I have read that i should keep it on the counter top, and feed several times so the starter gets its legs under it. So when i feed, just pinch a piece off, throw the rest away, and feed? Never have really read on how to maintain a stiff starter, when first starting it, let alone how often to feed it. and WHEN do i know its okay to put in the fridge. I know the extensive manner to get it ready to use, once pulled outta the fridge. Its these first steps i am cornfused about.

let alone, WHICH starter will give you the MOST sour of a loaf?

Thankx for your time

wd

I tried the instructions from King Arthur's website this evening to make a pancake/crumpet from sourdough starter.  It came out pretty good, a little tough but they tasted good.  I removed four ounces as I would to feed it.  Added 1/2 teaspoon of sugar and 1/4 teaspoon each of salt and baking soda.  It foamed up nicely.

After it was cooked I put a little butter on it and cut it into eighths. I put orange marmalade on one "stack" and maple syrup on the other.  The syrup was better.

I think I will continue to make at least one every day and accumulate them in the freezer for Sunday breakfast.  I wouldn't mind getting a couple of English Muffin rings and try that also.

My starter (Larry) is a pain in the butt so it (he) may not be long for this world.