The Fresh Loaf

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Stock Pot Loaves II

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hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Stock Pot Loaves II

 


Hi again. 


I liked the way my stock pot loaves came out last week, so I figured I would try it again. I also wanted to make my loaves with no additional flour which typically gets added during all that dusting for stretch and folds, again for stretch and folds, shaping, whatever. Not that this was really high hydration dough, this is a basic white flour sourdough with hydation of 65%, I just wanted to keep it like that all the way to the bake, and also to completely avoid adding any unfermented flour into the mix.


  


At the same time, I was trying to reduce the mess that I make in the Missus' kitchen, and I believe I did a pretty good job of that. I try to keep my starter mess to a minimum to begin with, even though I have a nice crock that looks good in her kitchen, it really camoflages a peanut butter jar that I can just toss out and replace if it gets really gunked up.


I made my levain build in a plastic bowl, from which the dough never really left until going into the bannetons. I did my stretch and folds, if you could call it that, in the bowl using a plastic scoop using no flour to dust with at all, scraping down the sides and pulling up and over, to avoid having to flour my hands and the counter top. After two sets of those, I divided the dough in two, again in the bowl, and by then the dough was still tacky but I had been careful to keep the gluten cloak intact, so I was able to shape the boules without any real trouble, then back into the bowl they went for a bench rest. I reshaped them again and they went directly into my bannetons (I did still use my rice flour on the bannetons, I am not crazy). Even though I try always to be stingy with the flour during dusting, it is surprising just how much flour gets incorporated into the dough in the normal course of events, because this is the same recipe I used last week, yet by this point the boules feel quite different from the last time. 



I placed them in the fridge for long overnight retarding, but another thing I did a little differently was that I took the boules out to warm up a little for a couple hours midway through, then put them back in to finish a 15 hour retarding time. I wanted to see a bit more rising activity during the fridge time, which worked out well. They had a really nice sour aroma by the end.



 


Again I had to bake one at a time in the stock pot, I am thinking this could be done better in an oblong roasting pan, at least I could do two at a time.  I will post a pic of the crumb once they cool and I cut into one. The kitchen smells awsome right now, and it is totally clean!


Here is the recipe I used as requested. 


In large bowl add:


1 oz active starter


4.8 oz flour


6 oz lukewarm water


When the levain shows lots of creases in it (like it was domed and had collapsed recently, this took roughly 14 hours in my house, middle of winter as it is) I added my remaining ingredients:


27 oz flour


14.8 oz lukewarm water


1 Tablespoon salt


Mix with a scoop or spoon just long enough to get the salt mixed in. Cover.


50 minutes later, stretch and fold without dusting with flour.


50 minutes later, repeat


50 minutes later, divide with scoop in bowl, remove each for shaping, again using no flour for dusting, replace in bowl leaving scoop as divider.


Let rest for 10-15 minutes (when they start to droop a little it is time)


Remove each and shape again, place in bannetons prepared with rice flour.


Cover at room temp until showing some signs of rising, then move to fridge.


Retard 6 1/5 hours. Move to room temp for two hours. Retard 6 1/2 hours more.


Remove from fridge. Place tiles or stone in oven, and stock pot & lid.


Preheat to 500 degrees.


When oven reaches temp, uncover first boule, rub some rice flour on top.


Take pot out of oven, careful it is hot, put more rice flour in the bottom.


Invert the banneton into your hand, work it into two hands, and drop it into the pot. I had a razor blade taped to a chopstick and had to reach into the pot and try to do the slashing. Not very elegant, but the best I could do. Cover and bake 20 minutes at 500, uncover and bake 20 more. In order to get the first one out, I used some rather large tongs from my barbeque set. Repeat for the second boule. 


Russ from RI

BettyR's picture
BettyR

Beautiful Loaves!!!!


 


I can't find Stock Pot Loave I...would you mind posting your recipe?

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

This should link to my first post on this, my sort of recipe is in there but not very well written, I will try a re-do as soon as I get a chance.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15292/stock-pot-loaves


 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

I just cut into this and ate the first slice. Really good, not "sour" but allot more flavor than my last. I went to take a picture of the crumb, which I think is also improved, but my camera battery needs a recharge. Hopefully I will get that done before the bread is gone!

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

More of your beautiful breads.


Do you happen to know the diameter(bottom") of of your pot?


Thanks.

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi


The diameter of the finished loaf in the above earlier posted picture is 8 1/2 inches, so I guess I could increase the size of my recipe a bit.


A little history of this stock pot:


This pot was gift to my wife on her bridal shower 15 years ago, she got 4 or 5 good years out of it until she upgraded. It was pretty banged up by then and she was going to toss it, but I saved it to store little items in the basement, and it eventually got used for all sorts of things including helping me clean the gutters....after only two bakes the white enamel is starting to turn brown, who knows how long it will last or how it will look if I continue with baking bread in it. This Stock Pot Refuses to Die!

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thank you.

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Went out and bought some Bob's Red Mill whole wheat flour to make the 10% addition as in Hamelmans original recipe. The last few years I had been home grinding Montana Mills Prairie Gold (pretty much a white whole wheat) with really good results, but I had forgotten how much even a small addition of red whole wheat can make a big taste and crust difference. Other than that, the methods were the same, but the crust is a little thicker and a little better "chew".


PeterPiper's picture
PeterPiper

I used to make bread in a stock pot and am inspired to do so again.  Your method for loading the bread into the heated pot has probably gotten you some singed knuckles.  Try unloading your banneton onto a large sheet of parchment.  Score it and then lift the bread in its parchment sling right into the pot.  Save yourself from those burns and happy baking,


 


-Peter


http://psoutowood.vox.com

BettyR's picture
BettyR

Thank you...your a peach!


 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

If you get a chance, please inform Mr.s hutchndi that I am indeed a peach.


By the way, all my effort in keeping the extra flour out of my bread really paid off. The crumb on this bread is totaly different, actually fluffy compared to the previous bake.

BettyR's picture
BettyR

But then he probably already knows your a peach!

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

That would be SHE.....

BettyR's picture
BettyR

Sorry :)

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

I added the recipe I used to the original posting above.

Barbara Krauss's picture
Barbara Krauss

I too am a big fan of Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough and have had consistently good results with it. I use a stainless steel bowl over the boule, which bakes on a stone. Now, if I could only get those nice precise flour patterns that you get! I have both the cane and plastic bannetons, but my designs are always garbled and sloppy. Can you describe your technique?

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

It is kind of hard to imagine you doing something that different to what I have described that would cause your lines to become garbled, as getting the nice design has been a rather fool proof result for as long as I can remember.  The loaves shown in these pictures were handled more roughly than my usual method, as I had to finaggle them into the bottom of this deep pot. When I bake directly on a stone as you do, I have a different technique for transfer. First off, my flour lines are rice flour, which I rub generously into the lines of my wicker bannetons, I am not sure if it would stay in place as well with plastic. I never use anything but rice flour in my bannetons, as it  hardly absorbs any moisture compared to regular flour and works flawlessly for making boule transfer a breeze. When I am ready to transfer my risen boule to the oven, I cut a square of parchment paper a little bigger than the top of my banneton, and lay it over the top. I place my cutting board, which is my makeshift peel, over the banneton next, then hold them all together and invert. Tap the banneton until the boule seperates, then take the banneton away, leaving a perfect boule and perfect flour lines sitting on the parchment square, ready to slash and slide into the oven.


Russ

Barbara Krauss's picture
Barbara Krauss

Hi Russ,


Thanks for the reply. I also use rice flour, but I may not be rubbing it in enough.  If using plastic, I treat the banneton first with cooking spray and then flour.  I don't do this with the cane bannetons. I'll try being a bit more vigorous next time.

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

I actually DO spray my bannetons with olive oil (from a pump oil sprayer--NEVER commerical cooking spray) before flouring and get great results.  When the dough is out, I quickly rinse (not soak!) my banneton with hot water and then air dry it on top of the stove so the oven vent supplies some hot air (careful, not too close to the vent or you'll "toast" the banneton--ask me how I know!). 


This is what the guy on Breadtopia does and it works well.  I've been doing it about a year now and my bannetons are fine (except for the slight toasting on one edge--see above). 


Fantes.com actually recommends "seasoning" the banneton for its first use with Baker's Secret (a flour induced cooking spray) and doing so again after the occasional deep cleanings,  but I personally would not use those cooking sprays because they have lots of other stuff in them.  Spraying just a fine mist of pure oil seems to be OK. 

Janice Boger's picture
Janice Boger

The crumb look beutiful, nice big holes.  Thanks for the detailed instructions.

Broc's picture
Broc

-- can probably be improved by leaving a bit more of your gutter residue in the pot.


To tell the truth, I actually used a pot which had been put on the counter-top by She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed.  Not until mid-bake did she tell me she had removed slime from the pond with it.


Had to toss the bread... obviously!  :)


~ Happy Baking!


~ B


 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

I probably should note that before the latest life change for this pot, bread baking, it was really cleaned and sterilized well.......no leaves twigs or anything buggy at all I would hope.


Definately no pond slime.


that She Who Must Be Obeyed...yes she runs a tight kitchen here too.

Barbara Krauss's picture
Barbara Krauss

I imagine you would get much the same effect if you baked the bread directly on a stone and inverted the stock pot over the bread.  It might save you the trouble of lowering your nicely formed loaves into that deep pot. 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

You are probably right. I am at this point uncertain what direction I am going to go with this, I mean, this is fairly novel to me, I have been pouring boiling water over lava rocks for 4-5 years now, which works well but it is rather unnerving to have water splattering all over a glass oven door window and the electric heating elements, so experiencing the extra oven spring using the covered loaf method is promising. I may either find some smaller stockpots or some type of covers as you describe. I am thinking of trying one of these small ones, if it works well I could fit 2 or three I think:


http://www.amazon.com/Granite-Ware-0517-6-Graniteware-Covered/dp/B001B36UU4/ref=pd_sim_k_15


 


 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

A day or two ago, I was reading on another forum(bakingcircle.com) that graniteware worked great for pot breads.


But again, most any pot or container does, as long as it's the right size.

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

That sounds encouraging, as I do like the thin stockpot kind of approach, I just pulled another really nice loaf out of the pot just a minute ago. Because it doesnt need time to heat up all the mass of a cast iron pot, I could probably convert this to a no preheat recipe without much fuss, and the small Graniteware pots could forestall the extensive spreading inherent in cold oven bakes of this kind. Thanks for letting me know there were others who have tried the Graniteware and gave it the thumbs up mrfrost!


 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Here's the comment about "graniteware" from bakingcircle.com:


"Well, here's my 2 cents. I've baked breads, both the 5 minutes a day one and ordinary kneaded dough in a covered le Creuset, expensive dutch oven. However, recently I was at Walmart, just before Thanksgiving and they had a display of the dark blue with white dots cookware. I bought a large oven roaster with a lid for the turkey. You all know the kind I mean. I just don't know what to call it. It certainly isn't as heavy as cast iron but I'll tell you that it produces a lovely bread and I don't even pre-heat it. I just put the risen bread (on parchment paper) in the roaster pan, spritz the bread heavily with water, put the cover on and bake for about 25 minutes covered and about 15 or 20 minutes uncovered. Works like a charm. There was a slight "ding" in the bottom of the pan and I paid $8.00 for it. And that's my 2 cents."

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Sounds like I have a new plan to think about. Thanks again.

KenK's picture
KenK

I've spent the past 30 minutes rummaging around for a pot or bowl that will work with my new Brotform.  With all the cooking stuff we have; nothing I can find will work. : (

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

Are you looking for a pot to cook in or under ? Your not going to cook in the brotform right?......?

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

I just last night baked a couple loaves using a non-coated metal stock pot, with just a plain shiney metal surface. Same procedure, but had to bake good 10 - 15 minutes more. Didn't like it.

belfiore's picture
belfiore

Hi Hutchndi,


If I might ask, how did you get the Kokopelli pattern on your profile picture? By the way, your breads look lovely!!!


I too have a Man-Who-Must-Make-Mess in my kitchen, but the results of his messmaking is so yummy that I rarely let the She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed out of jail.


:-)


Toni

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

 my only attempt at flour stenciling.....


PS


i am confused, which one are you toni?


must make mess or must be obeyed?

belfiore's picture
belfiore

hutchndi,


LOL... the must be obeyed is my evil twin & I rarely let her out. My hubby retired in April & has been doing most of the cooking, which he is very good at. I'm the baker when not working.


We have a saying at our house ...I cook, I clean~he cook's, I clean!


Did you use a purchased stencil? Looks fun.


Toni


 

hutchndi's picture
hutchndi

no, I drew it and someone cut it out for me, but I suppose you could use any of the paper stencils from a craft store as long as it will conform to the surface of your dough...