The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Questions about bagels

bobku's picture
bobku

Questions about bagels

I have been making bagels for a while now using Peter Reinhrt's recipe with great sucess just have some questions. When the bagels retard overnight,I know its done mostly to develop flavor so how long does it take for them to actually rise. Could you make the bagels without the overnight retard, could you just do an hour or so, could you skip it all together and go right to boil and bake after the 20 minute rest. I know the flavor would suffer just curious if the retard is all about flavor and has little to do with the actual dough rising. At what point are the bagels considered fully risen.

    Also after my bagels are shaped and rested for 20 minutes I have never had them fail the float test. They always immediately float to the top just thought I might be doing something wrong doesn't seem like the test is even necessary.

 

 

flournwater's picture
flournwater

Immediately afer you've shaped one of your bagels, do the float test.  I think you'll see the difference.  Better yet, get your cooking water ready and drop a bagel that  you have just shaped into the water, then proceed to finish it in the oven.  Then process the rest of your bagels the normal manner.  Nothing like a good old test kitchen experience to explain why things are done the way they are.

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

Till its doubled after done kneeing, then shape into tight balls. Rest for ten min. or so shape your bagels into the boiling water then the oven will work just fine. People have been making bread for ages and ages IMHO I think we tend to over think thinks theses days. I have done it like that  and BBA"s way both with good results.

Will

Feelin Crumby's picture
Feelin Crumby

The recipe I used in my bakery was from Julia Child's book "Baking With Julia", and I couldn't make enough of them to keep them on the racks. There was an older Jewish man that used to come in and buy 2 weeks worth at a time, take them home and freeze them. He'd eat one a day. He told me he had lived in New York City, travelled around the world, and that "my" bagels were the best he'd ever had. I was floored by that compliment, and saw no reason to ever change how I made bagels. Julia's recipe instructs to let the dough double in size for the first rise. Then, refrigerate the dough, covered, for 4 hours at least - - - but you can let it go overnight, and even up to 2 days. I always did the overnight rise, probably an average of 12 hours or so. Another secret of Julias that I believe sets her bagels apart is the addition of freshly ground pepper into the dough. It isn't overpowering in any way, but definitely recognizable in the final flavor of the bagel. Good Luck to you, and Happy New Year! - Jim

jabby's picture
jabby

Just on the overnight retardation of the bulk dough..... I tried this several times with the BBA recipe to see if I could avoid all the work up front and more on the second day. This allowed me to start on Friday night late and finish on Sat. when I had more time..   It did not work..... The bagels spread out on the pan or developed gumminess even when cooked to near burning.  I then went back to the way that BBA recommends it and they are perfect. 

 

For what it's worth.

Feelin Crumby's picture
Feelin Crumby

I'm wondering if you might be trying to work with too much dough at a time. It's important to keep the dough on the cooler side until you're ready to boil. I would cut off a small amount of dough . . . probably a sheet-pan's worth of formed bagels, scale it, form it, and put it back in the refrigerator until all dough was formed. Then I'd only pull out what I could boil at a time. My bakery was a small operation, and it was only my wife and I making the bagels in the morning. I was never disapponted in the results of my bagels by using this method. I know (and completely understand) you're trying to minimize the work to make these bagels, so I'm not sure if I'm helping or not. The bottom line for me is this, great bagels take a lot of work. But consider this also, spend a long morning, or a whole day for that matter, make as many bagels as you can, then freeze them. If wrapped correctly, they still stay fantastic. Once out of the freezer, don't bother to thaw, one pass in a toaster and they're as good as the day they were baked. - Jim - one more thing - -  a good idea is to split the bagels prior to freezing. it makes life a little easier.

richawatt's picture
richawatt

I have been making bagels for a while and I always retard them overnight.  You can, if you want to, boil and bake after shaping and proofing them, but they will really not taste as good.  What I do is, mix the dough, divide it, rest for ten minutes, shape, and put them right in the fridge.  I use really cold water, and use a little less yeast so they dont start fermenting too quick.  I have found that if they start fermenting before they are put in the fridge they will be over proofed.  they wont look like they are, but when you boil and bake you will have huge bagels that fall flat when baked.  You want them to look a little small when you take them out so by the time they are boiled and baked they will be just the right size and texture.  Now if you dont want to put them in the fridge over night to improve the flavor from a long slow fermentation, I would use a poolish, two rises, and a very short proof so once again they are not too big when you boil them. 

jabby's picture
jabby

What  a timely e-mail..... I made bagels this weekend and I think they overproofed. They were large when I took them out of the fridge and some deflated. A few inflated again with baking but looked dimpled instead of rounded. I use the BBA recipe of letting them sit for 20 minutes before shaping and them another 20 minutes until they pass the float test. It sounds like you don't do the float test? Do you test them before you boil them or just assume they're proofed? 

 

Also, I noticed occassionally I get gumminess on the bottom of the bagels. Do you think that's from the malt? I bake my bagels until they're fairly dark so I don't believe they're undercooked.

 

Thanks for you input!

richawatt's picture
richawatt

I dont do the float test, I dont wait that long before I put them in the fridge.  After I take the dough out of the mixer, I try to get it all done so i can just get them in the fridge as fast as I can. I would say that if they come out too dense, that's ok, just work up from there with the yeast and resting time to get the perfect bagel.  That is all I did...it took about 8 ot 9 tries, but if you keep at it you'll get it.  As far as the gummy bottom goes, that it's probably from the boil.  When they are overproofed before the boil I feel that they take on water and get soggy.