December 9, 2009 - 1:48am
Who made you king of the flours?
So, I live in Hungary, but my family lives in the U.S., and wonderfully, in five days I'll be visiting (I'm going to bake them so much bread!). It'll be neat, too, as a good number of ingredients in some interesting recipes aren't easily available here.
Including King Arthur flours. I always see TFL-ers mentioning it, and I've seen (and disobeyed) recipes specifically calling for KA... I'm just wondering - why? I definitely want to give it a go, but can anybody tell me why it's the most preferred one?
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Basically, KA flours are higher in protein(for gluten) than most other brands of flour that are typically sold in grocery stores here.
They are also considerably higher priced.
I add additional vital wheat gluten to many of my loaves - is this a good substitute for KA, or different? Sometimes I get confused...
I also add vwg to my lower protein flours when necessary. Works/tastes just fine by me.
There are those that say vwg adds a bitter taste.
than you want, but here goes.
I know that KA monitors this board, and I will make the disclaimer that although this is information that I have gathered from conversations with KA employees, what I say does not represent the official positions of KA. I try to be accurate in what I say, but I am just a raggedy home baker who from time to time encounters KA folks who freely give me information. I am not now, nor have I ever been employed by KA (although if y'all are listening and are willing to find a spot for a raggedy home baker in Denver - we should talk...)
KA does not mill their own flours but purchases and packages flours from a variety of mills - the same mills as other flour companies. What distinguishes their flours is that they have tighter tolerances than most other sellers not only on the protein content, but on many other characterisitcs and so will reject flours that other resellers will accept. This is what makes results with KA flours so consistent.
It is also unbleached/unbromated. Here in these early days of the 21st century there are many unbleached flours readily available to the consumer. This was not always the case and KA was a standout because it was unbleached. Unbleached flours give us the "creamy" colored crumb that we seek in our baking. A bleached flour will not.
I use their flour (when I don't mill my own) because I know that it will produce consistent results. This is important to me and I am willing to pay for it.
I had an interesting conversation about price. Yes, it is more expensive. In my tiny mind, if you hold your suppliers to tighter tolerances, you are essentially producing premium product and the price should be higher. But it doesn't stop there. What I heard (and bear in mind that this is "what I heard") is that retailers find that demand is somewhat inelastic for KA flours - so they will raise prices to what the market will bear and that the price that you see does not track exactly with the price that KA is charging the retailer.
In a way, we feed this cycle. I consider it to be a great flour and where I live, other great flours are not readily available, so I will buy it. Because people like me buy it, the retailer decides to raise the price and then... well, so it goes.
KA is also a large and effective marketing force in the baking world. They sponsor free classes, have an education center, an on line store (and a brick and mortar store) and participate in many activities in the baking world. This raises the visibility of their flours. There is nothing wrong with that. It is good business. They provide perceived value to the home and professional bakers and a premium price is charged in return. There is something classic in this business strategy that appeals to my MBA heart (if that is not an oxymoron.)
Again, the higher protein content is a factor, but it is the consistency that makes KA a preferred flour for me. I am fortunate in that price is a minor consideration for me (but I do love when it goes on sale...) but there are other excellent flours for lower prices.
....Canadian flour. I know people who travel to the US from Canada who take Canadian flour with them on holidays.
Is this still around in Canada? My grandmother would only use Five Roses (according to my Aunt and Father) and would buy it by the barrel. She was known as an incredible cook and baker. I've nver seen it here.
KA flour - I use it all the time, and like it, but I don't think I am decerning enough to see a difference, or maybe, as was said above, the other unbleached, quality flours I buy are just as good.
Marni
I've been using Five Roses since last spring when I had a bad experience with No Name cake and pastry flour. I baked a deep-dish blueberry pie with four pounds of fresh berries that turned out perfectly except for the fact that the crust tasted distinctly of chlorine. Since then I've been going out of my way to find unbleached flour. But I did recently buy a 10 kg bag of Five Roses all-purpose that must have been bleached because the price was great--under $7 for 10 kg--a holiday special at Price Chopper.
For bread, the unbleached Five Roses flour has produced superior colour and flavour. I also use a cup of Semolina #1 in the preferment that makes a noticeable difference in the quality with either all-purpose flour. <a href="http://www.phoeniciaproducts.com/en/prod.aspx?ProdSubCatid=17&ProductID=277">Cedar</a> offers semolina #1 which is a flour grind, and #2 which is a meal.
I'd noticed that after baking I would sometimes have an allergic reaction. I know I'm allergic to mould, and I think I've pinned it down to the unbleached flour, because I don't always have this problem. I guess the bleaching is more effective in ridding the flour of micro-organisms like mould. Mould spores must be circulating in the air after I measure and stir the flour, causing eye and lung symptoms. I may try wearing a mask and goggles next time!
Marion
I haven't heard of Five Roses, but maybe I will try it too... just arrived in the US, phew! and I'm getting over the jet lag enough to try to teach my brother to make a loaf today... thanks for the idea! I haven't ever had a problem with allergic reactions, but I love semolina so much - I will definitely have to try playing around with that! thanks for your ideas!
Erzsebet
But I'm just curious to know where you live in Hungary? I spent two weeks there last fall, and loved every minute of it...
Glad you enjoyed Hungary! I was born in the U.S., but my husband is Hungarian, and we relocated here a few weeks ago. We live in the city of Pecs, right on the Croatian border... I adore it! The vineyards, the castle walls, the language and people... Perhaps you visited here, and hopefully as many places as you could - it's wonderful!
I've heard great things about Pécs, especially about the traces of Ottoman influence in the city's architecture. Unfortunately I didn't make it there. I can tell you it was high on my whish list of places to see, but it didn't fit in with my travel route at the time (entering Hungary from Romania in the south east by train, stopping off at Szeged - then heading towards Budapest and the north west of the country). Next time!
I'm just glad you were able to enjoy Hungary - in the northwest, did you visit Lake Balaton? It's gorgeous, so strangely blue. Romania's quite pleasant as well. You'll have to see Pecs someday!
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When the recipe asks for The King, you don't go for a jack of all trades..
It's a higher quality product than supermarket brands like Gold, even if you have to pay alittle bit extra for a consistent quality its worth it because alot of things can go wrong with baking but its just one less variable you worry about.
I'm seeing unbleached, unbromated copies of the supermarket brands, pillsbury, gold medal. when I started KAF was the only one who believed in it.
Thanks, everybody, for giving me a much clearer idea! I make so much bread I will probably have to go for cheaper flours much of the time, but now I am looking forward to giving KA a try on my favorite loaves! It sounds good... Thanks again!
Erzsebet