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Freshly milled wheat doesn't stick, to make dough when is being kneaded

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Alex Herrera's picture
Alex Herrera

Freshly milled wheat doesn't stick, to make dough when is being kneaded

Hi!, Ive been making my whole wheat bread (with bought whole wheat flour) since 1978 and I just bought a Nutrimill and milled my first berries, got some beautiful and amazing looking flour and did continue as I have always had, started adding in the bowl of my old and powerfull Magic Mill Bosch kneader and surprise, the flour never got elastic and thick and it just became a thick soup, I tried it twice, I milled 8 cups for the first try and 8 cups for the second, I must tell you that I have never use any dough enhancer, it wasn't needed I always had beautifull loafs and pizza, maybe I need to add some dough enhancer, which I have never had, because the milled flour loses something when you mill it at home, it does get kind of warm, I read in the ingredients of the store flour they add ascorbic acid (vitamin C) and I also read that helps. I hope somebody out there in this community of Freshloaf is able to help me. thank you and have a great day!

LeadDog's picture
LeadDog

Try using a scale instead of volume measurements.  I weighed a cup of store bought flour and got 150 grams.  Then I weighed a cup of my freshly ground flour and got 125 grams.  The flour that is freshly ground will be different enough that you will have to adjust your recipes if you want to get something close to what you were use to making.  That has been my experience.

Alex Herrera's picture
Alex Herrera

Hi!, thank you for making a comment. That would mean more flour, which on my second try I started adding all the way to two cups and it got real thick but it never pulled from the sides of the bowl of my Bosch Universal, I don't know but I read yesterday when I started looking for answers that starch gets damaged and that the bran ends up with very sharp edges and it rips the air bubbles, and that freezing the grains before milling them doesn't allow them to get too hot and lose some properties, my God it sounds very complicated, maybe I just need to add some enhancer to provide for some loss in the heating of the flour when it gets milled?

Ria's picture
Ria

Make sure you bought hard wheat berries and not soft (pastry) wheat instead. Pastry wheat flour would do what you described because it has very little gluten.


Ria

Alex Herrera's picture
Alex Herrera

Thank you Ria! That sounds more like what I thought, I just bought wheat grain in HEB it looked golden yellow, they looked pretty hard to me but I have no idea of the name type, but I have a friend in Michoacan (down south Mexico) and his dad has a mill place where they mill tons, and he mentioned five different types of wheat that they process, and He must know the english names for thoes (I've been making bread with some beautiful whole wheat flour that he sent me  but I want to mill it myself,  so I'll ask him to send me the red hard one. Glutten is the first thing that I thought it lacked, I know that in the US they sell glutten additives but Not here so I'll wait for the new grain thank you much, have a great day! 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Don't give up on using the wheat berries you have. It will make great cakes,cookies and sweet bread such as banana bread.

naschol's picture
naschol

It does sound like you got soft wheat as opposed to hard.  I prefer to use the hard white wheat berries, as opposed to the red, to mill for breads and it works great.  What I do is mix everything together and let it set for about 15 minutes.  It takes longer for whole wheat to hydrate than processed flour.  Then, I start the kneading process.  I would think you could use your soft wheat (if that's what it is), by adding some vital wheat gluten to your dough mixture.


 


Nancy

Alex Herrera's picture
Alex Herrera

Thank you Nancy!, I think that adding gluten is what I need, unfortunately I have no idea if I can find it here in Mexico , so I'll wait for this Christmas when I'll go to San Antonio Tex. and I'll get some.

John_D's picture
John_D

 


check this out, there is talk about the need to age the flour depending on how quickly you use it after milling.  If you use it within hours it should work fine, if you wait more that 8 to 12 hours, then you should consider aging the flour a couple of weeks.


 


Here are all the details:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4618/discussion-grain-milling

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

if you can't find vital gluten...


for a quick fix with low gluten wheat flour, try adding egg white in place of water.  Reduce water and start with about one egg white per 500g flour.    Do not let egg whites in dough stand too long at warm temperatures or use in a poolish or pre-ferment.  If working with sourdough, retard in the refrigerator.   Egg white will shorten the life of the loaf so eat baked loaf within two days.


Powdered milk may also help. 


Mini

Nickisafoodie's picture
Nickisafoodie

I've always ground my hard wheat (and whole rye) in the same mill- going on 15 years and hundreds of breadpan loaves.  Using a scale allows me create perfect and light loaves, even 100% WW if kneaded properly and/or folded as you have seen from other postings. 


I mill the night before baking and make the sponge out of the rye first if using, then WW with rest of all ingredients added next morning.  You do not need to age fresh ground flour as the scale will take into account the proper ratios- 64-69% hydration depending on recipe- the latter was just made and I used a folding techinque 30 min into first rise and it came out perfect.  I make 5 loaves at a time, almost 11 lbs of dough; I usually add 1 tbs of wheat gluten to that entire batch but it is not neccessary and any more than that is detrimental to flavor.  Getting very good results with 75% WW (sometimes up to 25% rye), 25% white and 69% hydration - using a starter 12 hours before and 30% sponge, then mix rest, let autolyse for 30 min, add yeast, salt and then knead for 12-14 min and go from there.  I use steam first 10 min at 450, then reduce to 350 for another 40 min, or until 102 degree internal temp using a probe themometer. Stay with it, the flavor of fresh gound is far superior to KA or other premium flours!!  Whole Foods has it in my area and any health food store will order...

Alex Herrera's picture
Alex Herrera

Hello Nickisafoodie!


I appreciate your recommendation, I just talked to my friend down south (the one with the mill and he told me about the soft wheat, he is going to send me some hard red wheat for me to do some tests, although he said he imports that from the US, he also said they grow someting like it in Sonora. I'll also be looking for some glutten which i know it can be ordered in the US, I´ve already told my son, which lives in San Antonio, to look in the city for it, so we don't have to order it, but if we must, we will. I'll also will have to get me a thermometer which I did when I started but didn't use anymore and have no idea where it can be. I'll be trying some of the things you said you do, thank you much and have a great day!


Alex

Nickisafoodie's picture
Nickisafoodie

Make sure your oven is calibrated, also get themometer to ensure that when you set your ove to 350, it actually is 350 after 40 min or so of preheating - some are off by 75 degrees or more and 275 degrees won't work if you are expecting 350!  Gluten is sold in 1lb boxes in most health food store, but you can omit if you can't find. use a scale for all ingredient measurements to -Good luck