August 2, 2009 - 3:32pm
Tried my first sourdough bread today.
Tried my first sourdough bread today.
Boy do I have a lot to learn. :-) The first one looks like someone sat on it, and the second deflated so bad coming out of the basket that I didn't even put it in the oven. On the first, when I scored it, it sank. Definately not what I was hoping for.
Oh well, next weekend is the next try. Must work on surface tension and watch some more videos.
Any other suggestions?
Frank
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Hi, Frank.
The most common cause of a loaf deflating during transfer or scoring is over-proofing.
Try proofing to less than double in volume, maybe 75-85%.
I'm assuming your starter was good and active and you fully fermented the dough before dividing and forming the loaves.
David
They both sound like overproofing to me. When the dough deflats from scoring or just moving it from here to there, it's probably overproofing. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, it's hard to judge proofing. If you kept notes on how long you proofed, try less time the next try. Proofing time also varies considerably based on the dough temperature and the ambient temperature. I and everybody here has made plenty of pancakes along the way. Keep at it.
:-Paul
I plan to keep at it. I do think it was over proofed, it stuck to the wrap that was over it and it sank like a brick. Tons of air holes too. I'm watching videos now and my dough was not that firm.
Can't wait to try more (still tastes good).
Frank
Welcome to TFL - and I'm sorry to hear about your disappointing first sourdough attempt. Don't be too disheartened though - we've all been there (I still got there sometimes!).
David is probably right - it does sound like over-proofing. Stick with it and check out the 'handbook' section of this site to get more info and guidance on starting out in sourdough. Please continue to post and ask questions. Give as much detail as you can with any problems you have (pictures are helpful!) and there will be plenty of people here to give great advice and help.
Cheers,
FP
I'm going to keep better notes, but here are a few details. The starter is from King Arthur Flour. I've had it for two weeks. It seems to bubble when it is supposed to so I guess it's alright. I followed the recipe that was on the back of the sheet as my first try. This looks like it. And if it is, then it was overproofed. For some reason the times look shorter than the sheet I have. Wish I was home, I could check.
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/rustic-sourdough-bread-recipe
Is there a way to check my starter? Or just go by the generation of bubbles?
Frank
It's hard to tell without pictures or details about how it's being maintained.
check here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11746/liquid-levain-vs-stiff-levain#comment-65711
for some detailed discussion on starter maintenance and how to gauge visually whether your starter is ready.
There is a simple test for determining whether your final (shaped) dough is ready to bake which is to poke it! If the dough springs back immediately and no indentation remains, then the bread is underproofed. If the dough doesn't spring back at all then the bread is overproofed. If the dough springs back *slowly* about half way - then it's proofed and ready to bake!
This is just a rough guide. As others have said on this site before - don't rely on the clock as an indication of when your dough is ready. Take a simple recipe and use it regularly - make observations and adjust as necessary. After a few times you'll start to develop a good feel for when the dough is 'ready' throughout its various stages of development.
All the best, and happy baking!
FP
The Village Baker suggests rolling a small ball of the dough to be proofed, and emerging it into a mason jar of room-temperature water. When the ball of dough rises to the top, the proofing is complete. When I tried this, however, I found the ball of dough came to the surface long before the loaves were sufficiently proofed. At least according to my estimation.
What a cool trick! Too bad it didn't work.
Hmmm ... Maybe I'll give this a try. I'm curious about how well or poorly the floating dough ball criterion correlates with other criteria I use for proofing.
David
I'm going to try the finger poking first. Then maybe floaters.
You know, David, it's quite possible my breads *were* actually ready for the oven when the dough ball rose to the top. I say "by my estimation" they were not, but since reading here, I've learned quite a lot about the woes of overproofing, and I think my tendency has been to overproof. I'll be interested to hear how your experiment works out.
Frank,
I also bought my starter from King Aurther and I tried following the recipie on the back of the starter instructions, 10-12 tries later and I still was not getting what I would call 'good' bread, if I added comercial yeast I would get a nice loaf but with no sour.
Then I discovered the 1 2 3 thread on here and tried that recipe, sucsess, Time after time, "good' bread and with the sourness that I was looking for.
I mix my dough 1 2 3 around 4 pm then let it set on the counter until around 8pm, maybe a couple of stretch and folds, then into the refridgerator until morning,when the dough is almost doubled in size then I remove the dough and form into boules while cold. Proof about 3 hours on the counter (it runs about 80F in my kitchen) until it passes what I deem is a proper poke test, then slashed and into a 425F oven, sprayed with water and covered with the top of a roasting pan for 13 min. then uncover for another 20 min. turning once.
I'll fifth the overproofing
When I started doing SD, I assumed that my young starter would need more time to raise the loaves. Big big mistake. I got a bunch of ugly flat loaves with nasty crust. I proof right at 3 hours now (on refrigerated dough) and get consistently good looking loaves now.
I do a similar test when I make bagels before dropping them into boiling water. I float one in cool water to see if it will float, after shaping and sitting on the counter for ferment/proofing. When the test piece floats I'm off to the boiling water and baking.
There must be some correlation we could use on bread dough. Knowing when the proof is done continues to be hit or miss with me.
Eric