The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Baking bread in the Tropics?

Nica Linda's picture
Nica Linda

Baking bread in the Tropics?

Hello Bakers,

Over the past year I have discovered that I love to bake bread, and not just because I have been baking out of necessity (sadly, good bread is hard to find where I live). Without the convenience of internet right in my kitchen, my single resource has been the "Fannie Farmer Cook Book" published in 1970 that a friend gave me. But as of a month ago, we finally have dial-up speed internet out here in the campo. One of my first searches lead me to The Fresh Loaf!

After reading through so many highly-knowledgeable posts, my list of questions is as long as my arm. But in general, I would greatly appreciate any tips on baking in this tropical climate and unique recipes that might be ideal for the limited amount of flours and grains available to me...Bollo Fino white flour, mid-grade wheat flour, corn meal, Oat bran, Oatmeal and a variety of add-ins (local cheese, nuts, fruits, veggies). My baking tools are very basic and my oven is propane rather than electric.

My desire is to get a few good recipes down so I can make bread regularly for friends and neighbors. I also know of several local women in the area who might enjoy learning about different breads they can bake in their adobe brick ovens.

Thanks Fresh Loaf community!

Linda

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Hello and Welcome Linda,

Sounds like you might be limited on flours..but you have some friends with wonderful ovens for baking bread..there are lot's of recipes posted here new and old ones. 

Sylvia in San Diego

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Sounds like you've got enough to start on, if not keep you busy for quite a while!   Where are you located?  The tropic zone is a big one!  I'm guessing Middle America?

Internet is wonderful!  Just start with a basic recipe and see where it takes you.  Tropical temperatures and humidity will affect your dough.  You will have shorter rising times and you may have to add more flour (or rolled oats) to your recipes.  Follow a recipe first and then make adjustments to the recipe.  How high are you above sea level?

Mini

Nica Linda's picture
Nica Linda

Hi Mini and Sylvia,

Thank you both for the quick replies.  I have been combing through this website for most of the day.  I just prepped a pre-ferment that I will use later tonight for an attempt at Italian bread.  The amount of info on this site is incredible.  I have a vision for the kind of bread I want to create - it seems this forum will help me get there. 

My location is the southern Pacific Coast of Nicaragua.  My husband and I live basically at the beach with a wonderful view of the ocean. We enjoy our Nica life, except for the lack of bread - but I'm working on that!  As I experiment and learn more about the science of bread making in general, I'm sure I will be posting many more questions and comments.  For now, I plan to try the techniques and recipes offered on the site to see what works best for us...and our friends!

Gracias!

Linda

Janknitz's picture
Janknitz

I used to live in rural Hawaii without air conditioning and baked bread all the time.  If you have a refrigerator (not everyone in rural Hawaii did, so I'm not making assumptions!), the refrigerator is your friend!

You can let dough rise in the fridge.  It is great for developing flavor and giving you total control over the process.  Otherwise the quick ferment you get from what passes for "room temperature" in your area (I'm guessing in the 80's unless you have air conditioning) does not allow the flavors to fully develop and you are a slave to the bread's schedule instead of the other way around.  Over-proofing becomes a real danger. 

I always did at least one proofing in the fridge, and often two.  After the initial kneading, the dough went right in the fridge.  When I was ready (4 to 20 hours later) I'd take it out and do the shaping (or a second rising).  If I wasn't ready to bake at that time, I'd pop the shaped loaves back in the fridge until I had more time.  The shaped loaves would usually come quickly to room temperature out of the fridge while I was preheating the oven. This works with all sorts of doughs--artisan styles and enriched dough.  Cold dough is also easier to shape. 

Be sure you keep your yeast in the freezer or the fridge--it will go bad a lot sooner in the warm and humid environment.  We had a "FoodSaver" that would put an airtight seal on everything in jars or bags and I used it for all my flours and seeds to keep them fresh and keep tropical bugs OUT. 

Enjoy--sounds like a wonderful life ;o)

Nica Linda's picture
Nica Linda

My set up is the same - fridge and no air conditoning.  Although on those really hot days I consider my fridge to be the air conditoner as well, at least for a few seconds at a time. And now I'm finding out that it will help my bread making substantially...the firdge is nothing to take for granted.

Janknitz, your advice is just what I'm looking for.  Thanks for the detailed reply and I'll look forward to any more wisdom you're willing to pass on.

 

mickeymarie's picture
mickeymarie

Thanks for that great suggestion. I also live in Nicaragua and have battled with my bread rising too fast. My refrigerator will now be my best friend.

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

This is very late but I have a question about the shaping stage. Do you let the bread rise after shaping it when you take it out of the fridge? 

I also bake sourdough in the tropics and have trouble with texture, its quite gummy. I think it over ferments in the heat.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Does sound like overfermenting but could be underfermented as well.  How does the crumb look like?  Got a picture?  A photo of the whole loaf and a close up of a middle section slice would be very helpful.  

Thanks,  Mini

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

Thanks for replying. I don't think it's  underfermenting as I left it overnight in the fridge and then after shaping, returned it to the fridge for 3 hours.

The texture of the dough seems too fermented, it is bubbly on the surface and hard to score after shaping. I left it to bulk ferment for over an hour before putting it in the fridge  overnight. It is hot and humid here in Queensland, Australia . I'm  thinking to put it straight in the fridge overnight after lightly mixing and a bit of stretch and fold.

Also it may be undercooked. I use a benchtop oven which only goes up to 220 Celsius.  I baked it 30 mins at 220 with lid on and then 15 mins with  lid off at a lower heat. I'm thinking of trying a longer  bake next time.

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

most likely underbaked.  The upper crust looks like it is baked about two cm from the edge, the bottom less.  All that moisture sitting near the lower center of the loaf waiting to push upward.  With a mini oven, you also might try without the pot if you haven't already.  Tenting the top quickly with foil when it turns brown.

  I would knead the dough, develop the gluten more after a 15 minute pause of getting all the flour moistened.  Then bake much longer.  I would suspect 45 min for a white loaf using 500g flour.  An hour perhaps?    More time on doughs with heavier flours.  The way the crust cracked looks like more than white wheat flour.  Did it crack open on the bottom crust as well?   Flour? What's the basic recipe?

Overall shape is pleasing, and crust is evenly browned.  

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

Thanks for your help. I used 100% wholewheat bread flour as we don't eat white bread. It didn't crack on the bottom, it was actually very hard crust at the bottom, a bit too hard. This is the ingredients:

275g Water 

100g weight Sourdough Starter That Passes The Float Test

350g Organic wholewheat bread flour

Half a Tablespoon Salt

I let the starter, flour and water autolyse for half an hour then put it in a bread maker with the salt and let the bread maker knead it for 10 mins. Then I left it to proof for an hour. Then overnight in the fridge.

Next day I roughly shaped it, left for half an hour then shaped it and put it in a bowl with a floured tea towel and put in the fridge for 3 hours.

I let the oven pre heat at 220c with convection for 45 mins with a casserole dish inside. I turned out the dough onto parchment paper and put it in the heated casseole dish. Baked it with lid on for 30 mins then took off lid and baked  10 or 15 mins (can't remember  which now) at a lower temperature until the top looked like it would burn if I cooked  it any longer. The inside dough temperature was above 200c.

That's a good tip to use foil to cook it longer when it's  browned. From what you say it seems I need to cook it a lot longer, maybe an hour and 15 mins even?

When I've cooked it without the sealed casserole dish it comes out flat, the casserole dish with lid does seem to give better oven spring.

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

A bit more info... I have used stretch and fold in the past instead of the bread maker kneading however the long gaps between stretch and folds made the dough over ferment in the heat here

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

presents a lot of problems on its own without adding tropical heat to the equation.  I'm not big on whole wheat myself unless we're talking Einkorn or Spelt.  Try lowering the hydration (less water) and start out with a stiffer dough, that might slow down fermentation and reduce the water inside the dough.  

Another thing you can try is adding some gelatinized starch.  Today for instance hubby wanted to cut up potatoes for French fries.  I asked him to put the fries into a bowl of water after he cut them but don't dump the water.  After he fished out his fries, I let the water stand until all the starch had settled and gently poured off most of the water.  Then stirred it up and transferred it to a measuring cup.  Let it settle some more and poured off most of the liquid.  Then I stirred it up and microwaved it until the starch gelled the water and turned clear.  That goes into my next bread as part of the water.  It's gluten free and should make my next loaf softer and more voluminous.  How much to add?  Well. If I know my flour weight and take 5% from the recipe, that should be about the amount of dry starch. Multiply by 5 to get the amount of water taken from the recipe.  I am eyeballing it.  

Look up 100% whole wheat Tangzhong and see what pops up for a recipe. What I find is that it is one way to add water to a dough and yet keep a manageable shape without it going flat.  The dough will be less sticky, firmer and easier to shape.  Also look and compare WW potato bread recipes.  A Tangzhong can be made with WW as well or any starchy flour.  A little goes a long way, too much added to dough will give the opposite, a gooey wet crumb.

 You can also try proofing the shaped bread in the well greased casserole and bake sooner.  But try only one change at a time so you can keep track of what changes the outcome of the loaf.  First try should be to bake longer.  If that doesn't work, 2nd try reduce the water in the recipe.  Take good notes so you know what you did a year from now.  :)

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

Lots of great advice thank you Mini Oven. I will try what you suggest. I don't have a microwave so I don't think I can make my own potato starch.  I do have cornflour though (which is the same as cornstarch in Australia), so maybe I can add some of that.

Like you say I'll try one new thing at a time. Thanks a lot for your help. You're the first person I've talked to for advice and I've been trying for over a year, so your tips are much appreciated.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

no need for a microwave, any heat source that can almost boil will work but I think those who work more often with whole wheat can help more.   Try asking simple questions into the site search box.  Scroll up to the top of the page on the right.  Then all manner of post containing those words show up.  100% whole wheat loaf. Might be a good first try.  Or:  flat 100% whole wheat loaf.  And read thru the posts.  You can save posts too so you can find  them again easier.  They will show up on your very own home page.  Clicking on your photo will get you there fast.  Checking on other members photos will get you to their pages where you can often find similar interests.  Like others that bake with whole wheat or nearby bakers with similar problems.  

Putting up a new post will get more responses, not everyone lives in the tropics but many more are baking whole wheat loaves and may respond.  Title a post with your problem will also help.  Like: Flat 100% whole wheat loaf

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

Thanks for the tips. I did search on google, which is what led me here to this post, but yes I'll search this site  too, I hadn't thought of that. Your advice has been a great help, i think you hit the nail on the head about the dough being too wet and also baking for longer.

Today I made a new loaf, pic below, with much less hydration, the recipe said 75% and so far it looks much better. Still waiting  to slice it and see the crumb, about an hour more to wait...

However the dough looked much better and I was able to score the top. I didn't knead it much in case I overdid it. Next time I'll knead more as i think more developed gluten would give a better rise.  Also I'll be trying a tip I discovered for wholewheat where you autolyse just the flour and water overnight in the fridge, that should help with gluten development too.

Thanks for your great help ?

 

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

I made a new loaf with some changes, though still high hydration.  If you don't mind I'd be interested in your view of the crumb, any improvement over that first loaf I showed you? Does it looked more cooked or not? I read sourdough is supposed to be chewy and I'm wondering if what I call gummy is in fact chewy. I cooked it for 30 mins at 220 Celsius (the  highest my benchtop oven will go) with convection in a Dutch oven and then removed it and put on a baking tray and cooked it for an hour at 180 with normal bake mode. Maybe I still need to cook it longer? I'd appreciate your opinion, thank you.

The loaf would  have risen higher with oven spring but got stopped  by the Dutch oven lid

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

From what I can tell,  the crumb looks baked through and done.

Worthwhilebubble's picture
Worthwhilebubble

Thank you for your view. It is still a bit tacky to the touch but tastes good. If it looks cooked then maybe it's sourdough chewiness. I'm going to experiment with other flours and hydration to learn more by experience.

Maximumwheeliy's picture
Maximumwheeliy

Thank you for picture and kindness 

althetrainer's picture
althetrainer

I used to live in Hawaii, back in the 1980s and the early 1990s.  It was the time when I was a young girl who wanted to make her own bread.  I remember the bread I made were very different from what I can make now. 

Experience (or the lack of it) was a great factor but the altitude, temperature, and humidity could really affect the results as well. 

Now that I live in Calgary where the altitude is almost 3,500 feet.  I need a bit more water and longer fermentation time here due to the dryer and colder environment.  I remember my loaves in Hawaii were always small.  Now I know I must have over proofed my breads in such hot and humid environment.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

The one with raisins.  It was a real hit in Costa Rica when I was there in Feb.  I've been looking for Black Turtle Beans here to no avail.  

Mini

Nica Linda's picture
Nica Linda

Mini I would love to try black bean bread.  Please send me a lnk to the recipe!  

Today was my first time using a pre-ferment and it turned out excellent.  I used it to make pizza and it was absolutely the best I've made thus far. 

Tomorrow I'm planning on trying some cinnamon rolls.  Wish me luck!

Linda

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

as part of the liquids for straight doughs.  Try to find flours with high protein content.   I have baked a lot of potato doughs in tropical weather.  

Mini

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Regular yeast?  What's that?  Sounds like Dry active?  Or is it a cube of fresh yeast? Instant I understand.  Which one did you test and use?

The biggest problem with yeast in the tropics is that it might have been over-exposed to killing heat before you got the yeast or during transportation home.  Yeast rises like crazy with tropical temps so you will be more apt to reduce the amount not increase it.  :) 

Jilrob's picture
Jilrob

I live in steamy Southern Thailand and this is very helpful. I have a pizza oven, gas not wood and just bought a decent fridge so time to jump in. Thanks for the wonderful site.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Northern Laos, in the mountains, and have cool nights (16° to 20° C)  With 28°C  day temps.  Mixed up a 500g wheat AP dough at 70% hydration (350ml water, 24°C) with only 2g SAF instant yeast and it moved up my baking time from Afternoon to Lunch time.  Sourdoughs are also going off faster during the daytime fermenting.  Even in the fridge, my starters are very hungry and keep me busy maintaining them.  The wheat starter made from rye is too sour so I am starting a fresh one from scratch.  The flour is sealed inside sturdy plastic bags (I'm using them for garden plants) so it must be very dry and absorbent flour.  

I also have a new Sharp mini oven to play with until my bricks arrive for my big oven project.  I've got the "white wheat daily" baking down to a no fuss, shove in the proofed dough at 220°C on an upside down baking tray (bottom) set the time for 40 min after preheating, and come back anytime to take the loaf out of the oven.  I can come back when it's hot or later after the oven cools down.  Love that automatic shut off, leaves me plenty of time to do other things.  The dough proofs inside a cut off 8 inch piece of pipe on parchment in an air conditioned room.  

Very interested in the gas pizza oven burner set-up, Jilrob,  got a picture?

helenmcintosh's picture
helenmcintosh

Mini,

I am interested to read your email. In Ghana we are probably a good 4°C warmer than you are. I am just restarting my bread baking here and was very interesting in reading your percentages and the amount of SAF that you're using. I pretty sure that I put too much yeast in my last batch on levain. Can you share roughly what percentage of salt are you using? Thanks!

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I tend to use 1.8% salt (upped it a bit while we sweat glow so much.  And the instant yeast I've cut to just one level teaspoon SAF per 500g flour.   We are having cooler temps at night so depending on when I'm raising the dough I can change the yeast to fit the room temp.  Less with high temps, more with low ones.  (14°C at night)