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Autolyse & Active Dry Yeast

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bansidhe's picture
bansidhe

Autolyse & Active Dry Yeast

Hi,


 I read about the autloyse method on your site.  Very cool, indeed.  SO, I tried it.  I mixed flour & water together and let it sit for a bit.  The result actually looked like dough I had kneaded.


My question is this.  Since I am using active dry yeast whats the best way to incorporate it?


I used a bit less H2O for the autolyse and dissolved my yeast in the deficit. However, incorporating


liquid into a dough is a challenge to do by hand.  Any suggestions?  In fact, I felt as if I were doing all the kneading I so desperately was trying to avoid by using that  autolyse method.  I did like the result, but my crumb a little too tight.. 


 


If I were to also use a sponge, I would imagine the technique to incorporating that would be the same. Is this accurate?


 


Thanks!

scardanelli's picture
scardanelli

One solution would be to use instant yeast instead of active dry yeast.  If your autolyse doesn't last for any longer than 30 min., you can incorporate the instant yeast into the flour/water mixture and then let autolyse.  Then all you need to add is the salt and starter.  This only applies to stiff starters though, as you can add a liquid starter or poolish to the autolyse without any negative impact.  Hoped this helped.

bansidhe's picture
bansidhe

Thanks...  I am pretty sure I read that when using instant yeast you can add thatafter your autolyse, that is with the salt and whatever else.. which lead me to me question, since I am not using instant yeast but active dry instead which must be hydrated first, whatis the best way to incorporate it in the dough?


Things I'd like to avoid : excessive kneading, adding more flour (because yeast mix is wet)...


I'lltry and look up my source and post it in case there is something I am missing...


 


thanks again!


 

cranbo's picture
cranbo

why not just hold some of the recipe's water back, use it to rehydrate the ADY, then incorporate it after autolyse, as you suggest?

 

arzajac's picture
arzajac

What's wrong with disolving the yeast in the water before you mix them together and autolyse?

scardanelli's picture
scardanelli

When you use an autolyse, you don't want any fermentation to occur.  If you add dry active yeast to the autolyse, it will begin fermenting while the autolyse is happening and impede gluten development.  With instant yeast, the yeast will not activate until it is hydrated which usually takes about 30 mins, and therefor will not get in the way of gluten formation.

scardanelli's picture
scardanelli

...or that's how I understand it anyway:)

davec's picture
davec

The overwhelming success ot the no-knead method makes me question the idea that fermentation inhibits gluten development.  In that method, you simply mix everything together and let it ferment for 12-18 hours.  Granted, you do cut way back on the quantity of yeast. The gluten develps just fine. This is one more area in baking where myth seems to trump any solid data.


As for the instant yeast, why not just mix active dry yeast with the dry ingredients?  Won't it take just as long for it to hydrate as it would for instant?  It is certainly a myth that active dry yeast has to be activated in water.  I always mix it with the dry ingredients, and have never had a problem.


Dave

scardanelli's picture
scardanelli

I apologize... I went back and did some reading and you're correct; fermentation does not inhibit gluten development, it inhibits extensibility, which is one of the benefits of doing an autolyse.  I must have crossed a few wires in my brain.  This wasn't a "myth" that I learned, simply a misunderstanding.  I don't have a lot of experience with active dry yeast so I can't comment except to say that generally, it is called for to let active dry yeast sit in water for 10 minutes to activate it whereas instant yeast takes 30, therefor during a 30 minute autolyse, there won't be any fermentation to inhibit extensibility.


 


As for the "myth" that dry active yeast must be activated in water, I assume that you don't have any problem because the water in your dough eventually hydrates the yeast and fermentation begins.  This is just a guess on my part, but if anyone has any better guesses, i'm open to them.


 


 

bansidhe's picture
bansidhe

Ah.. but affects extensibility..  ok.. so what do I do.. I have a lot of active dry yeast, so I would like to stickwith that....


 


What is the best way to incorporate the hydrated/dissolved yeast into the autolyse?  I mean if I put in in the flour and add water after ten minutes fermentation can begin... (Actually I have seen fermentation start A LOT earlier than that with active dry yeast.  Since I want to avoid the fermentation at this point..  I return to my original question. 


 


Any thoughts?


thanks!

scardanelli's picture
scardanelli

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but here's the quote from Michel Suas' Advanced Bread and Pastry...


 


"One important exception to the no-yeast-before-an-autolyse rule is when using instant yeast." 


"...it is important to incorporate the instant yeast just before the autolyse."


etc..


Anyway, sorry, none of that addresses your question. What you might try is to only autolyse a portion of your dough; say maybe half of the flour and water required for the recipe.  When the autolyse is done, dissolve your yeast in the reserved water and when it's ready, incorporate the yeast water into the reserved flour.  Then, you can knead or stretch and fold these doughs together and then knead as normal.  I've never done this before, but it sounds like it should work.


 


Sorry about all of the other stuff...kind of got off track there.

bansidhe's picture
bansidhe

that's ok.. I'm not all that fond of horses anyway...  :-)

staturecrane's picture
staturecrane

I live at high-altitude, and therefore use very little yeast in order to maintain a long rise. One solution to your problem is not adding any additional yeast, and letting the starter do all the work for your batch. That way, you can autolyse as normal, and in adding your starter you add your fermentation. It might take a bit longer to rise, but longer fermentation is okay.