The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

simplest bread formula, please?

redcatgoddess's picture
redcatgoddess

simplest bread formula, please?

Ok, I am at my wits ends...  I always thought there is no way one can not learn to bake. However, my better half always manage to prove me wrong.  Trying to him to make bread (since he loves bread & it is something he can do while I am busy in the kitchen doing pastry & other artisan breads) is like mission impossible.  My better half seems to have a talent to destory any dough, ANY.  Pie dough turns into buttery soup, tortila had over tared gluten... I don't know how... but he always manage to destory any 'fool proof' formula that I can come up with.  So... anyone? fool proof formula?  Help?!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Maybe he doesn't want to make bread.  Years ago my sister could burn water.  When she got hungry, she learned to cook.  Hunger is a great motivator.  So is cooking for loved ones.  As long as you can cook better, and willing to cook, there is no motivation.  It is also good to be supportive of any effort, no matter how small.  

You could start by letting him help you, plop the bowl of ingredients in front of him and simply ask him to stir it up for you because you are busy and need the help.  Don't forget to reward him for his efforts.   Each time get him more involved into the process.  Even when you've done 80% of the work, call it his bread and be proud of the outcome.  He may soon catch on and want to be more involved in the process.  Good Luck!

Mini O

Russ's picture
Russ

No knead bread is so simple it has been the reason for many new bakers learning to make bread.

Here's one of my favorite online tutorials for it.

Russ

redcatgoddess's picture
redcatgoddess

oh.. don't get me wrong, he is a great help in the kitchen when I am cooking!  He is always willing to help out... cut, chop, stir, dishing... I will let him do cakes, muffins, my premixed freezer cookies, and etc when it's not for sale, since I could careless w/ the turnneling or the uneven shapes, as long he is having fun..  since he is the one eating it.  It's just when it comes to a ball of dough, he just have that magic touch..

Like tonight... I thought a yeastless tortila formula will be absoutly fool proof, since basically you just need to bring the dough together to form a ball & roll out the shape.  So I bring out the ingredients, scale, and bowl, taught him to read the baker's formula, have him wt the ingredients...  Just when everything seems to be fine.  He somehow manage to over tare the gluten w/ gooy mess all over his hands & turn it into a sticky piece of something.  So I step in & fixed it even though it was a kind of late at that point of time.  He tried to roll the portion out & got frustrated with the shape so I told him NOT to worry about it.  After a few try, I could tell he was getting upset & frustrated but I want to show him that is ok & we can still finish so I offered to takeover & finish the last 5 peiece & have him fry up his rolled products instead.

I felt horrible... I told him it was 'fool proof' and he insisted that he is the exceptional fool that the formula is not proof.  It will take me another couple months after this to convenice him to try again...  I am going to see if I can get him to another no kneed bread again and see if that will boost his dough comfort level...

I really just want him to enjoy the experience.. not just get frustrated & pissed everything time... :(

clazar123's picture
clazar123

A new tactic is called for. Ask him what HE wants to make, ask him to research it and find a recipe (even if it is in your recipe file) and then leave the kitchen til he his done. Don't critique it or try to help him improve it. Just praise it to high heaven.If he has questions about how to do something differently, answer them briefly or point him to a reference to get the answer in a self sufficient way.

He may very well be intimidated by your knowledge and his lack of it and whether you realize it or not, you have set up a rescue dynamic for him. He knows, no matter what, everything will come out fine because you will step in. He is engaging in what is called "creative incompetence" and people do this for several reasons-1.He really does NOT want to participate in the activity but says he does or 2.He lacks any confidence or 3.maybe he doesn't want to develop a competition with you. That can change the dynamics of other aspects of your relationship. Cooking together in the same kitchen is not just about cooking!

Another thing to consider is that we cannot change other people-we can only change ourselves. So the questioning you are doing should also involve how you come across in these interactions. What can you change in yourself or your actions to change the outcome?

I think this may be more about interpersonal dynamics than bread making.And the good news is that interpersonal dynamics are about growth and change. So this is really an opportunity to grow and strengthen your realtionship.

I know there is hope because my husband has turned in to a really great cook over the years.It takes time and experience and sometimes just walking away and letting him handle it. He has also discovered his limitations and the boundaries of his interest and baking is something he is definitely not interested in. And that's ok.

So let him decide the next recipe he wants to try.

mcs's picture
mcs

Holy cow, as entertaining as this thread is to read, I REALLY hope Mr.redcatgoddess doesn't stumble upon it...
this is you:  "But honey, I just want you to enjoy baking with me and being in the kitchen together!"
him:  "I thought you went to school to become a chef/baker not a psychotherapist!"
That's the censored version.

OK, maybe that's just my own crazy scenario.

-Mark

http://thebackhomebakery.com

redcatgoddess's picture
redcatgoddess

Thank you, everyone!

We work well together, working (I am also used to be programmer), cooking, and some baking.  He is not a bad cook and he been in charge of our lunches daily and sometimes dinner since day 1 of my cooking school days.  He is always interested in what I am making for our dessert after dinner, what am I making for the guests, or his favorite, what kind of freezer cookies that I am making for him so he can make it whenever he wants a dozen or so when he is working late on his computer.  He has always offer to help to measure, pull of the ingredients, mixing, heat up the oven... the little things... you know...  and he will be more than happy to get his hands dirty as long it isn't 'high fat dough' since he has the tendency overwork the butter & turn it to buttery soup.  So that's what I thought bread will be great since he LOVES them dearly and there is no butter (well, as least not the lean breads)!  So I started to include him, to teach him... then the mess started..  and I can see him getting frustrated with each try..

Maybe Clazar123 is right... I should let him decide what he wants to make/try next time and not to baby him & comes to rescue when things gone wrong and be ok w/ him not want to do bread ever again... after all, he doesn't have to enjoy the same thing I do.. :)

 

oh.. and.. btw.. we are safe here... Mr. Redcatgoddess doesn't read the same kind of forum.. While I am all about food pairing, pastry & bread, and of course, shoes.. he is all about electric toys, perfums, cars, and where to find best beers...  :)

Yumarama's picture
Yumarama

Not to say you're somehow "bad" for him but simply that his learning from someone so close to him may have detrimental side issues involved. You're better at it while he's still stumbling and each error shows how not as good as you he is. He is conscious that you'll see his mistakes, he feels bad and that lowers his confidence more which causes more mistakes. (Even if it makes no never mid to you, it may to him, consciously or not).

I might suggest you send him off to a night course on bread making where someone a little more detached and personal can help guide him without the added personal aspects. He's no longer trying to get "as good as" but rather learning along with the others in class, many of whom may not be as good as he is. The teacher showing him where he's going wrong is a teacher, not his wife/girlfriend. It doesn't carry the same emotional points. It's a little more structured, the reason they'd make this bread is because it teaches this, then next time they make that bread which builds on class #1 but also teaches that, etc..

Then of course, he can come into the kitchen on his own, make a loaf or two from start to finish and show off his mad skillz to you and you can beam proudly at the new bread maker.

--------
Paul

holds99's picture
holds99

OK Redcatgodess,

Here's Norm's (nbicomputers) sure-fire training film.  It shows all the various baking funtions in excruciating detail.  This should quickly isolate the problem and clarify the baking process for hubby, once and for all. 

 http://www.archive.org/details/BakingIn1946

Being an under-graduate, myself, at the Dunwoody Institute (Dunwoody "Racker" Certification Program) I can personally attest to the effectiveness of this fine institution's training program...as well as this marvelous film that Norm has so generously shared with all the TFL'ers. 

Now, as the Dunwoody (1,200 members strong) Marching Band finds their music sheets, let's all grab our bannetons, rise and sing Onward Ever, Dunwoody  :>)

Howard

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

There is a pecking order in the kitchen, as with any project.  Someone has to be "in charge" and all others take their direction from there.  

When you are in the kitchen it has been understood from dear hubby that you are the boss.  I think when you follow Clazar123 direction and hubby has picked out his recipe, it is important to say to the new boss, "The kitchen is all yours, have fun,"  permission is granted and leaves him to take charge.   Then you stay away and go do something else somewhere else and give him plenty of time.   I cannot help my husband when he cooks, I get too bossy and he has different ideas.  He is confident enough to chase me out.  I send in other men to be kitchen slaves and I go join the coffee circle. 

I have to learn over and over again to let go.  (And I don't go back into the kitchen until I'm invited back or ask permission.) 

Mini O

redcatgoddess's picture
redcatgoddess

Thank you!

I will see if he will like to watch the video together and I had already asking him if he will be willing to do another loaf.  Interesting enough, he said, "yeah... as long I don't have to roll it out again... that was frustrating & the dough was flighting back"  ok.. so no more flat bread, and I can live w/ that.  I had also ask him to find a recipe that he like & we will run done the basic & let him do the handy work himself while I come up w/ another Petit Four buffet menu w/ my laptop from the livingroom ... :)

Thank you so very much!!