April 8, 2020 - 6:53am
Shaping Sourdough Rye
I searched for this but could not find a thread with an answer. (Probably my lack of skills in search terms). Sorry about that.
I've been trying to imitate a simple sourdough rye I used to eat in Germany. I've experimented but essentially all my attempts have been half white rye flour and half AP or bread flour. I manage along fine until shaping. When I work at getting tension, the loaf often splits. I don't have this problem with regular wheat sourdough. My final results usually are too flat to consider a success though I still eat them.
Is there a definitive best practice for shaping a sticky rye loaf and achieving any tension?
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A Levain is being prepared for a foray into Rye Bread baking as I write this. Having never mastered rye, I can say that is quite different from wheat breads. In the past my rye breads also cracked. This is because rye grain has very low gluten qualities.
Tomorrow’s rye will be baked in a pan. That seems to be the safest method for beginners. I recently purchased Stan’s book, The Rye Baker (Kindle Version) on Amazon. I have been enthralled with the unique information provided. A friend recommended starting with Stan’s New Your Corn Rye (no corn in bread) and that is what will hit the oven tomorrow.
I have plans to try a new method for pan doughs which after initial testing is producing stellar results. It can be seen HERE.
Good Luck!
Danny
I had thought about tins, but I do love that standard Round German Rye bread of Hessen (and all over Germany). I'm wondering how they managed to uniformly get such good results (besides obvious practice).
And thanks for the book tip. I'm going to look at that!
I have rec’d refunds for Kindle books that I didn’t like. So there is little risk for the purchase.
BUT, this is one book you will want to have if Rye is of particular interest to you.
Thank you!
Hello, when I produce my rye bread which are usually classics like Danish rugbrod or rossiskys. My hydration is usually around the 150% mark which makes it impossible to get any tension at all. This is why I always use a tin thins way you don't have to worry about anything like shaping etc. I use 80% rye 20% white.
Dean, can you post the formula? 150% hydration is mind blowing.
Hi the recipe I use is as follows
400g organic rye flour I use gillchesters
100g strong white flour
10g salt
10g molasses or treacle
150g sour
50g seeds mainly pumpkin and sunflower
750g water I rend to use quite warm water around 30 degrees this give the loaf a great start. I also pre soak the seeds with some of the water to soften.
The mix reveals a cake better like texture very soft. Place straight into a bread tin and leave to rise then in the fridge over night bake at 180 for around 50 minutes the next day.
Please post loaf and crumb shots. Sounds delicious will all those seeds.
IMG_20200330_121324.jpg
I ran out of seeds on this bake only had a small amount left.
someone just posted their 100% rye bake, boule style.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62962/my-first-100-rye
That post includes a link to the formula/recipe.
I appreciate that!
A 50/50 wheat/rye dough won't stand up to the same forces that can be used on an all-wheat dough. A lighter touch and less tension are required. Doing both a pre-shape and a final shape are helpful.
Paul
Please comment on docking and scoring.
Up to about 50% rye, you can pretty much score a loaf as you would a wheat dough with no rye in it. You might have to make some allowances for the depth of cut, since gluten content decreases as rye content increases.
For rye percentages above 70%, I'd definitely shift to docking. This can be done with a skewer, or chopstick, or a docking tool. The objective is to make a series of shallow holes, usually less than an inch deep, through the top crust of the bread. This prevents a "flying crust" from forming since the holes provide a path for gases from the interior of the loaf to escape, rather than being trapped just under the crust.
Paul
Paul is the docking done right after shaping or after the final proof? Same question for scoring.
Thanks
If the recipe has other guidance, follow that.
I have seen some rye breads that are scored immediately after shaping, some before baking, and some not at all. About the only generalization I would make is that if it behaves like a wheat bread, then treat it like a wheat bread. Sorry if that seems vague.
Paul
Interesting I have never heard of used the docking method. And I have been making bread for professionally for over 20 years.
For any bakers interested in “docking” dough click THIS LINK for a thorough forum search on the subject.
Thanks!
I shall try!
The cracking is a beauty mark and identifies it as a high % rye bread. Lovely Loaf!
comparison pics. Were they baked at the same time?
The scored loaf was baked in the evening. I put the other loaf in the fridge overnight. It had about an hour to come up to room temp before baking.
Now you have to show the second loaf crumb.
I had not heard about retarding rye. This one was baked the next morning, perhaps 7-8 hours after the first. I waited until today to cut into it.
This post inspired me to get bake into rye breads, Thanks!
Here is the writeup.
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/63051/first-rye-15-years-or-so