The Fresh Loaf

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Is there that much difference between Spiral Mixer and Planetary Mixer

CUISINED's picture
CUISINED

Is there that much difference between Spiral Mixer and Planetary Mixer

for mixing bread dough?

or::me buying Haussler Alpha will do my dough much better results?

currently I'm using an 2008 KitchenAid mixer, Artisan KSM150. it's beginning to be too small for my current dough mixes and I feel like upgrading. I understand from the web that this is quite highly recommended mixer and I can't tell by those reviews if that's true or there's other stuff not talked about on those forums and web videos.

I've seen a TFL post that stated that the Alpha had or still have electric problems. Can you confirm this or the other?

frankly I am looking for the best and honest reply you can assist me with because I will be ordering this mixer to ship overseas so factoring in the expense of repair, I'd like to know as much as possible before ordering. 

So..Is the Haussler Alpha (2 speed) Mixer a good dough Mixer/Kneader?

Thanks and best,

 

 

David R's picture
David R

... many high ratings for Häussler Alpha, and have also seen a complaint that (especially with less than a full load) the half-finished dough can "climb" the hook and has to be pushed down again. Now, was that a fault of the machine, or operator error? I certainly can't tell, but I have to assume it could be a problem with the machine itself.

 

It's a big machine, high capacity. Will you normally use all that capacity? If not, get something smaller. A big mixer takes work just to own - heavy (65 pounds!), takes up space, lots of surfaces to clean.

Pleasant Hill Grain (a well-regarded vendor as far as I can tell) has very high customer ratings for this machine. At least one customer mentioned the climbing, and the staff response was that this problem should be fixed by adding more of the liquid near the beginning, not holding it back for later in the process. If that really fixes the problem, does it sound reasonable to you?

Several reviewers compared it with KitchenAid mixers they had just replaced, most of them saying that the Häussler handles bread dough much more easily than their KA did, and some saying that the Häussler's finished dough was better quality and got done faster.

 

I agree that a Häussler is a lot of money, and for that it had better be free from electrical problems or other nagging defects. I haven't heard about that.

 

From my point of view, not owning or planning to own either one, the main thing I see in all this is that KitchenAid - even the biggest best most powerful KA - seems to be very overrated, at least as far as bread dough. (I've heard that the much older ones were built differently, but those are harder to find than something new.)

 

My personal, opinionated, flawed response: Do replace your KA, with something, if it has become a problem. With Häussler? Maybe - your call. Don't choose without comparing. There are a lot of other new mixers out there besides Häussler, and it seems like nearly any of the "serious" ones are going to be a big improvement on what you have.

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

Don't have any experience with the mini spiral mixers.  Smallest I've used has a minimum 20 pound flour batch capacity.  In general I would say that spiral mixers do a really nice job for bread dough.  I chose to buy a refurbished 20 quart hobart for home use.  I figured it was a little more versatile than buying a small spiral.  It's a lot easier to mix a wider range of things in a hobart: cookies, cakes, meringue etc.  Plus there a host of attachments that a hobart can theoretically be bought as add ons later down the road if you have other food processing needs...

If you are buying for only a bread mixer the spiral may do a better job but I tend to think I can make some pretty darn good bread in the hobart too.  One of the major differences between the spiral and planetary as that the planetary is acting on the entire dough pretty much constantly and so it is more intense of a mixing action where as the spiral is only working a small portion of the dough at any given time so it is more gentle and tends to organize the gluten network a bit nicer. 

I chose the hobart for a number of reasons but I could see the draw of having a spiral mixer as well...

albacore's picture
albacore

I am a fan of domestic sized spiral mixers - they do a much better job of dough development than planetary mixers. They are also good for a wide range of hydrations, 45-85%, and great for mixing in seeds and the like on slowest speed after gluten development.

However, they are a one trick pony - only good for making bread - except the Haussler Alpha! I think it is unique in having a range of other attachments, at a price, no doubt. Also, a big shortcoming in my eyes is a lack of a breaker bar, so dough will ride up the spiral when mixing small doughs.

Perhaps have a look at the Famag IM5S or IM8S and keep your Kitchenaid for non-dough duties.

Lance

David R's picture
David R

... how much you're going to use it, too. If you're baking lots of bread every day, you might WANT that one-trick pony, because you need to be able to expect it to do its trick perfectly every time. And if you never wanted to make cookies or grind sausage meat anyway, then who cares if your machine can do those things?

bikeprof's picture
bikeprof

A good spiral mixer is way more efficient in mixing dough than a planetary mixer, but either can do the job.  I also know of some bakers doing big batches of cookie dough, etc. in their spiral mixers, not just bread.

I looked into the haussler's but was reluctant to buy, given the mixed reviews.  In continuing to look for a smaller spiral mixer, discussions among professional bakers pointed to the lack of a breaker bar (bar that goes down the middle of the bowl adjacent to the spiral, that helps mixing efficiency) as a problem (I don't believe the haussler's have them). 

There are a number of other small spiral mixers out there, many seem to targeting pizza shops.  Mecnosud, Avancini, and Gemingani were the ones that I found most attractive, and ended up with the latter, which has worked well for the past 2 years in my cottage baking operation.

David R's picture
David R

That last one is spelled Gemignani.

nicodvb's picture
nicodvb

I've used several models of planetary (Kenwood, Kitchenaid and other cheap brands) and one 8kg spiral mixer (with bar).

Well, I've never seen any difference in dough development, but it may take longer to develop the same dough on some models than on others: it depends a lot on  the shape of the attachments, on the shape of the bowl and even on the material of the bowl itself (if it's made of plastic  the dough sticks much less and the dough is developed better and quicker).

What's really different is the resistance of the mixer: spirals are renowned for being war horses, nearly indestructible.  Planetary mixers are very unstable simply because they are so light and can't stand stably on the counter when in heavy duty. One of mine fell on the floor 3 times before finally breaking forever. The spiral mixer is 35 kg, hard to make walk :-)

On the other side the spirals are completely unusable for anything that is not kneading bread-like doughs, whereas with the planetary mixers you can make cakes and use the paddle with very wet doughs (that makes a huge difference).

Finally, what makes the largest difference is the flour that you use. With the wrong flour there's no mixer that can make the miracle.

 

Regarding the bar, I ended up removing it because I noticed that with small amounts of dough the bar made more harm than good. Parts of the dough tended to stick to it and weren't being kneaded, creating an empty spot at the centre of the bowl. With larger amounts of dough I wouldn't have had this problem, though.

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

Yeah, I was a little surprised to hear all the negative planetary talk myself as well.  I love spiral mixers and If I was opening a bakery I would certainly have a spiral but undoubtedly there would probably be at least 1 if not 2 or 3 planetary mixers depending on what products are being made.  I think part of the problem is that people expect a kitchenaid or the like to stand up to intensive bread mixing over time and it's simply not realistic.  If you mix large stiff doughs in a home size planetary you will wear out your gear box over time (I know, I've replaced a number of parts on my old kitchenaids).  If your only experience with planetary mixers is kitchenaid then I understand why you may sway heavily towards a spiral but if you get a heavy duty planetary they are pretty solid mixers.  As I said before I have a 20 qt hobart and the thing is an absolute rock.  As long as it never walks off a table it should last forever.  Even with doughs of 80 percent hydration and up I can achieve gluten development pretty darn quickly especially if using an autolyse.  When making my high hydration sourdough my mixer is on for a grand total of maybe 3 minutes? about 45  seconds on speed 1 to bring the ingredients together for the autolyse, about a minute to incorporate the levain, salt, and second water also on speed 1, and about a minute to a minute and a half on speed 3 to reach my desired development.  This is all done with the dough hook so that's not even bringing the paddle attachment into the equation...I think understanding how to use the machine in order to achieve your desired results is what is crucial. 

David R's picture
David R

... any negative talk about planetary mixers. I saw negative talk about specifically KitchenAid. Well, KitchenAid (modern ones) are flimsy, and they don't do a great job on bread dough. If you only make bread, you do not want a KitchenAid, despite the marketing hype. (If you make only cakes, it sounds like they're fine - I don't know. I do know that they grind to a halt [and "grind" is exactly the right word] on a heavy batch of cookie dough.)

They look pretty. They have lots of sizes and styles. Their marketing department is obviously stellar. Their competition ... makes better mixers.

Sasaki Kojiro's picture
Sasaki Kojiro

Hello FueledByCoffee, 

I'm very new to machine mixing so I'm doing a lot of searching on TLF and came across your post. I just got my hands on a new heavy duty planetary mixer, made in Malaysia with dough speed at RPM 197 and paddle speed at RPM 317 - quite high compared to the Hobart I think. I have been using it twice for my sourdough: a 85% dough with 50% whole wheat. My understanding, and also learning from Hamelman's book, that both higher hydration and higher percentage of whole wheat will lenghthen the mixing time, not to mention a planetary mixer will take longer time than spiral mixer, generally speaking. But my mixing time seems to be really too long. 

I came across your post and see a very little mixing time using the Hobart. Can you share with me how your dough feels like at the end of mixing or how do you determine your mixing is done? It took me today 3 minutes to get everything together, do a 40 mins autolyse, then 10 mins mixing on medium speed/paddle speed (RPM 317 - really high!). I stopped 1 mins after the dough came together and clean off the bowl, make some popping/slapping sound. My goal is just to get it to medium gluten development and let the long bulk do the rest. 

I'm really new to this machine mixing so much appreciate your sharing. Thank you!

Kojiro

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

It really depends a lot on hydration and what kind of dough you're mixing.  I was making sort of tartine style sourdough bread using those short mixing times.  My basic strategy was to feed my culture and start my autolyse at the same time.  So I was doing a really long autolyse, like 4-5 hours, until the culture was showing some good activity but was still pretty young.  Right now I can't really do that method without some work because it's winter and room temp would cool my autolyse too much before mixing.  After the autolyse period I added the culture, salt and 2nd water and mixed on speed 1 until everything was incorporated.  Once it was homogeneous again I turned the mixer to speed 3 with the dough hook and mixed for about 2-3 minutes.  The dough was starting to pull off the bowl pretty nicely.  Dough comes out extensible but also well developed.  I did a write up on this but the pictures are no longer available http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/59053/basic-white-sourdough

David R's picture
David R

... go into business making a highly sought-after gadget - a 50 kg lead weight, shaped to fit over the base of planetary mixers. ?

Single-purpose tool vs multi-purpose tool is a personal preference, not a question that can be resolved by debate or evidence. Most multi-purpose tools are of inferior quality for at least one of their functions, if not inferior for all of them. Most of the time, a set of single-purpose tools to cover all those functions will be far more expensive. So the question becomes "Are those inferior functions on the multi still good enough? Will it do a good enough job of what I do the most?" - or it becomes "Are those single-purpose tools really going tobe worth the extra cost?"

Each person or business has their own answers to those questions.

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

Ha, I have seen a Hobart ratchet strapped to a table before.  You can also pretty easily bolt them down.  They really do have a propensity to walk when kneading large amounts of dough.

CUISINED's picture
CUISINED

,- One of my reasons buying this mixer is that I've heard that planetary mixers tend to overwork the gluten?

Is any one here with actual hands-on Haussler or any of the other equipment mentioned here?

Thanks

FueledByCoffee's picture
FueledByCoffee

You could overwork the gluten using an artofex mixer if you allowed the machine to run for long enough.  When a spiral mixer is working the dough only a small portion of the dough is being worked at a time, as the dough rotates around the bowl it is able to relax briefly before being worked by the hook again.  With a planetary the entire dough is essentially being worked the entire time but the action isn't as effective for developing gluten.  You can get pretty similar dough and results from both mixers if you use them the right way.  I don't think there is a huge market for these tiny spiral mixers so you probably won't get a whole lot of input from people who own them.  It's sort of a niche product.  My thought process was multi-layered when I chose to purchase the 20qt hobart.  For one, it is more versatile.  Secondly, if I ever chose to open a bakery a 20qt Hobart is infinitely more useful than a tiny spiral mixer in a bakery setting.  Sorry I can't give hands on knowledge of the mini-spirals, I'm not sure if anyone around here owns one...A lot of folks around here do hand mixing and develop through stretch and fold. 

Baekerin's picture
Baekerin

I have had mine for at least 5 years and had no issues what so ever ! breads come out fabulous .Does it ride up some the dough , sometimes ,but mostly not ! 

Breizh's picture
Breizh

I have also tried different rotary mixers, even one with two hooks, and all of them had the dough climbing the hook(s), and just going for a ride doing nothing, totally useless kneading action. On the other hand, the spiral is the best way to go for bread dough, but prices are high and units are heavy. Even French bakers don't like to use rotary mixers.