The Fresh Loaf

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Tips on good starter grains (or anything else) for a new miller?

severoon's picture
severoon

Tips on good starter grains (or anything else) for a new miller?

Hi all — I've been lurking the forums here for a few years. I began a starter about 5 years ago and I've been baking naturally leavened bread ever since, and I've occasionally gone into commercial yeast breads as well, both lean and enriched.

Awhile back I saw the Johnson & Wales "Future of Bread" talks posted on YouTube, and in particular I found the talk by Wolfgang Mock pretty intriguing. It had never occurred to me to mill my own flour, but as I went around to other ardent home bakers I know, I was surprised to learn a few of them are already doing so. Also, I feel like I have enough of a handle on the baking side now to take on the next challenge.

I've have a Komo XL, the sifting attachment, and an assortment of buckets and and gamma seal lids on the way. (Not committed to the sifting attachment, may send it back and go with a mesh.) I'm planning to kick things off (once the mill arrives) with some basic ½ white-½ wheat sourdough, country bread, farmer's bread to start. Can anyone recommend a good quality hard red wheat and rye to get started?

I was considering the Breadtopia Organic Rye and Hard Red Spring, but it seems the wheat is out of stock (I like the idea of starting out with 10lb of each so I don't plan to order anything larger for now). Is Red Fife or Turkey Red a better substitute, or should I be looking at something entirely different? I see Amazon has Palouse Hard Red Wheatberries as well…

Also, any other tips for someone that's never milled before on any aspect of it? Common pitfalls? using the mill, storing grain, keeping starter with fresh flour, etc?

Thanks for any and all advice. I have searched the forums for similar threads, but it seems it's been awhile since one of these "general advice for newbie millers" has been posted so hopefully I'm not the only one that finds it helpful.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Breadtopia is a good source for grain, especially f you want to purchase in small sizes. Give them a call and talk with Eric or Galen. Both are knowledgeable and bake bread. Galen recommended White Sonora and it is becoming one of my favorite “light” tasting wheats.

Pleasant Hills is also good and so is their support.

Beware, the freight charges are high on all online orders, at least to Louisiana.

Dan

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

First, welcome to the club ( though it is a small one ) of those of us that mill their own flour and use only sourdough starter.   Sourdough on its own is a very difficult to master, and adding the challenge of milling makes it even harder, since there is very little in terms of a handbook or reference to home milling for bread.

I originally started with red spring wheat,  for some breads it was fine, but for everyday, I find it tasted a little too grassy.  I now buy winter white wheat.  I have purchased 25 pound bags from an organic store near me ( the bags are labelled Central Milling ) and have tried berries marketed as emergency food supplies from Augason Farms - which Walmart sells .  While it sounds like a big difference to go from Central Milling to what is designed to be sold to preppers, I didn't notice any difference.

Tips,  first, good idea to start with a blend of AP and home milled.   If you don't find a recipe and a process for home milled, it is pretty hard to try to duplicate it substituting 100% whole wheat.  If I find a recipe I like, I make it first with 100% of the flour called for, then repeat it a few times over the next few days, increasing the percentages of whole wheat till I reach 100%,  all the while changing the hydration and the timing to try to get a similar result.  

Second, don't look at any photos of bread made with anything other than 100% whole wheat - you will just get depressed .  I say that in jest, but it is true that no matter how perfectly you do it,  100% whole wheat will never rise as well as white flour.  On the other hand,  white flour will never, IMO, ever taste as good as 100% home milled wheat, and I think those that try your bread will agree.  To me, bread with white flour tastes overly sweet, like cotton candy, and there is a feeling that something is missing.

Third, when you go looking for a recipe for whole wheat, and there are many here, try to find one that lays out every step with timing and temperatures.   My favorite is  Fighting gravity,  though ignore the photos, mine don't look remotely like those.

Fourth, you will see lots of conflicting advice - should you sift or bolt the flour, or use it as is, should you mill it as fine as you can v. mill it coarsely, or somewhere in between, should you use it right after it is milled or temper it ,  how long can you store it before it goes bad .     For me, I tried sifting for a while, but didn't think the results justified the efforts, I mill it 1 click away from as fine as it will go, and I don't temper, but do store flour in the freezer, but again, others will have their suggestions, and you will have to decide what works for you. 

 

 

 

severoon's picture
severoon

barryvabeach — You mention that getting 100% whole wheat breads that rise is difficult, I thought you might find this interesting.

I did an experiment awhile back where I made a 100% whole wheat sourdough using two different approaches. In the first approach, I just made it as the recipe called for using Bob's Red Mill organic whole wheat.

In the other loaf, I used 100% Bob's Red Mill artisan bread flour, but I held back a small amount of the water (15g or 20g). I calculated the amount of bran and germ missing from this white flour and hydrated those components with the bit of water (warmed to ~45°C / 115°F), then added that after kneading until the dough passed the windowpane test.

The results for the first loaf are pretty much as you describe: dense crumb with a heavy feel. The second loaf, however, was maybe 75% of the way towards a typical white flour loaf, much lighter, open crumb, felt very much like a typical white flour bread in texture.

Here's the crumb of that second loaf:100% whole wheat crumb shot (white + bran + germ)

The hypothesis I was testing is a simple one. I'd read that bran flakes act like little razor blades and cut up gluten as it's trying form during kneading. I'm guessing that is the case based on this result.

This experiment is partially what is pushing me to mill my own. In order to do it I had to buy bran and germ separately, and the germ expired in a few weeks, before I was able to use even half of the package and the flavor suffered within a week of opening the bag…not spoiled, but not that pop of rich, fresh wheat flavor in the bread above. Now I never buy whole wheat flour, I only buy white and add the bran and germ separately (for all uses b/c I have to use up that bran and germ anyway), and I've gotten super open crumb farmer's and country breads too.

Farmer's bread crumb:Farmer's bread crumb

Country bread crumb: Country bread crumb

This is why I got the sifter, I do plan to continue adding back the bran (not sure if the sifter will also separate the germ) when I'm going for a more open crumb.

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

You'll certainly have a portion of germ mixed with the bran. If you're going to use a starter try adding the sifted germ and bran to the starter portion you'll use for the loaf. The acidic environment will soften it nicely. 

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Good evening: I start reading this post when you ask question about milling your own flour. I too am new at milling flour.  I did my own whole wheat flour milling and make my own wholewheat bread at home . It was not  a very successful bread because it was not as tasty( it was gummy, not open crumb,heavy ). Definitely not   like yours . I did not sifted out the bran nor do I wait for many days to use the flour. I usually use it within one week. The reason that I do not make whole wheat bread as much was  because I was not as successful as when I use white flour(store bought).  Reading other posted that gave you advises , I really do not understand it. It seems to be way...out of my knowledge. Your breads crumb took my breath away and I too would like to be able to make it.   I will come to the point and ask if there is anyway, that you can give me the recipe so that I and my family can enjoy it too. I would be forever grateful. Thank you. 

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

Welcome to the club. I took up home milling because I wanted to maximize the nutrition in my bread. When I baked with commercial flour I found myself adding things like milled flax seed and toasted wheat germ to boost the quality of food that home baking provided. I had to keep this stuff on hand and in the fridge. Then I realized that I could put a bucket of grain in the pantry and have fresh flour that was at its maximum flavor and peak nutrition whenever I needed it in whatever quantity required with no refrigeration needed. Oh yeah, the flavor was simply grand. There's a learning curve and for me at least some of it was steep. When it come to sources of grain check Walmart online and Amazon Prime for the Augason Farms products. Like Barry I have found little difference between their products and the more expensive products with fashionable stickers like "Organic". 

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

I had to cut short my first comment to go fix a pot of stone-ground oatmeal for breakfast - that's another use for your home mill. It's just me and my wife in the household now and we're on 'fixed incomes' (whoever fixed 'em did a poor job - they're still broke) so I'm always looking for good prices and minimal shipping costs. That's the reason I recommended Walmart and Amazon Prime for the Augason Farms products. They frequently have them available with free shipping. If you order from Walmart online the grain will be delivered to a nearby store and you can pick it up.

Eventually you'll be looking for grain in bulk, 25 and 50lb bags and pails. That will give you some insurance from the oops-we're-out-of-stock-gremlins and an opportunity to shop prices seasonally. For storing grain food grade pails available from most home improvement stores work well and if you plan on stockpiling bulk grains purchased in bags or not packaged for long term check out Oxygen absorbers from http://packfreshusa.com. Placed in a pail they'll take out all the O2 inside and eliminate any possible 'pests' that might have hitched a ride or left and egg behind. I've got about 100 pounds of various grains, wheats, rye and corn, set back and packed for long term storage by the vendor or by myself in addition to the grains I have readily accessible for day-to-day use.

When it comes to sifting, ageing and tempering - I don't. I grind what I need and start the loaf right away with the flour at its peak nutrition and flavor. I really don't see much point in trying to replicate the flours prepared by commercial mills. But experiment to your heart's content. That's a great advantage for home milling.

I've found that hydration will need to be higher than what I'd use for commercial flour and a nice long autolyze, about an hour, helps greatly.

My mill is the Mockmill attachment for KA mixers and its use will be different from your standalone mill. The only flour I grind in advance is flour I'll use to refresh my rye and my hard white starters. I keep it in the fridge and it's used up in about a week. I was amazed by the vigor starters built and fed with freshly milled flour displayed, the rye especially. 

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Thanks Old Baker. WalMart and Augason @ Amazon are the 2 best deals I’ve seen by far. I hope I remember them for my next purchase. 

Check this out.  https://www.amazon.com/Augason-Farms-Red-Wheat-Hard/dp/B00LBGLWE0/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1536160175&sr=8-8&keywords=Augason%2Bgrain&th=1&psc=1

Dan

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

Yep! I got that one about a month ago and packed about 40lbs of it away in an empty Augason Farms bucket from my last order with a new oxygen absorber. The remaining 10lbs ended up in my gama lidded pantry bucket with the remnants of my last order. It was clean and uniform. The bag said "quadruple cleaned" and "USDA No. 1". What's not to like? The bagged AF wheat says 18 months of shelf life; their pails, 26 and 40lbs, have a 30 year shelf life if they're unopened because they're packed with the oxygen absorbers and sealed. I figure if I'm around 30 years from now they'll be feeding me through a tube so I ain't worried about shelf life but the absorber will take care of any hitchhikers and doesn't require electricity like my freezer uses. I'm getting old - chasing grain bargains is more fun than a night on the town and I'm much more unlikely to pass out from it.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Dan, that is a great price for red,  unfortunately the price is much higher for Hard White.  I picked up a 40 pound pack from Walmart a while back when it was around 50 to 60 cents a pound,  went to reorder and it had doubled, not sure how they do their pricing. 

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

OK! I'm gonna give away my supersecret, newly discovered source for good deals or at least OK deals. There's a company in, well never mind where, that I've ordered organic rye from at a good price. They do charge for shipping and they've got Prairie Gold Hard White @ $25.00 for a 50lb bag. I've only had one transaction with them but the order was filled and shipped promptly and safely and the product appeared to be clean and top quality. Gosh! I hope you guys won't exhaust their supply of stuff I want : < ). It's Country Life Natural Foods - https://www.clnf.org/ . There's no free shipping deals but you can check with them about what it'll cost to ship to you. It's a religious based organization but they even shipped to me, a backslidden Baptist. Check them out and see what you think. They're in Pullman, Michigan. 

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Too many people must have followed that link,  I just checked, and they want $52 for a 50 pound bag of winter white, plus shipping. 

Justanoldguy's picture
Justanoldguy

I was looking at the Prairie Gold Hard White item number 075085. If you want organic it will run more. 

TopBun's picture
TopBun

Welcome to the world of home milling. Once you're buried your face into a bowl of fresh-milled grain and inhaled the aroma of living flour, you will never go back! And you will love how adding a bit of just-milled flour kickstarts your sourdough starter into high gear.

I've been very happy with the hard red spring wheat from Great River Organic Milling, which sells through Amazon with free Prime shipping. Currently $1.67 a pound which is hard to beat especially for organic wheat, and the 13 to 14% protein makes for good dough strength. The company provided excellent, personal customer service when I had a small issue with an order.  http://a.co/d/ejCdmg9 is the current product link.  

I sometimes use a 40-mesh sifter from Breadtopia to remove roughly half of the bran at about 90% extraction (saving the rest in the fridge for bran muffins!), but I also like it at 100%.  Also, lately if i don't feel like sifting, I've been "double milling" with my Komo Fidibus Classic mill, which is said to increase the amount of water the flour can absorb, which helps with a softer whole wheat crumb and perhaps a bit with loaf height. I first run the wheat berries through at medium grind (exactly halfway on the Komo) and then run that through on the finest setting, using my fingers or a pasty brush to help feed it down. This produces VERY fine 100% whole wheat flour with smaller bran particles than a single mill.  

I've also had good luck with so-called "double hydration" in my dough mixing, which is holding back some of the water until after a 45 minute (or so) autolyse when it becomes more apparent how much more water the flour can absorb. I find it lets me hydrate at higher levels without accidentally overdoing it.  It also makes easier to dissolve the salt if you've held that back for autolyse.

Eric

 

severoon's picture
severoon

Thanks for the info!

I can report my first experiment with home milled flour did not go so well. I used Bob's Red Mill hard red spring, I milled fine and sifted out the bran for ~77% extraction. I then did a 1 hour autolyse, followed by mixing to medium gluten development (which took quite a long time, much longer than with Bob's Red Mill flour) while I hydrated the bran. After developing the gluten I added the bran back in, mixed to combine, and went ahead as usual with a 4 hour bulk ferment, folding every half hour after the first hour. After preshape and shape, I proofed overnight ~7 hours at 55°F, then baked as usual.

Problems:

  • heavy, dense ­— gluten didn't develop sufficiently despite the long bulk and overnight proof
  • gummy — crumb was a bit gummy, and crust was soft
  • overfermented — the flavor was not pleasantly sour, and this is coming from someone that appreciates a pretty aggressive sourness; this was more of an acrid & phenolic result

I normally proof this dough ~9 hours at 55°F when using store bought flour, and then perhaps leave it at room temp another hour or two to fully proof. Fresh flour appeared to give an overproofed, overfermented result much more quickly.

TopBun's picture
TopBun

All this does take some trial and error.  Your symptoms do point to over-fermentation. Fresh-milled flour will often ferment faster, as you have discovered. You might try reducing the starter inoculation ratio to slow things down.  

What percent hydration were you using? A gummy crumb might just have been wet and underbaked, although overfementation can certainly do this too. 

Do you normally separate and hydrate the bran before mixing it back in? I'm not aware that this is any more suited to fresh milled flour than otherwise. I've never used that technique, opting instead for a relatively high overall hydration and long-ish bulk fermentation with lots of folds in my 100% whole wheat loaves to hydrate the bran in place. With a sufficiently high-protein wheat I get very good gluten development.  Bob's Red Mill Spring is very good.

My fresh-milled loaves are not unpleasantly sour, overfermented, or gummy -- well, at least not any more so than before I started milling my own flour, anyway! There's no end of variables or little errors that can throw things off just when I think I've mastered whole grain bread. Keeps me humble, that's for sure! 

Eric

 

severoon's picture
severoon

Thanks for the response!

Total hydration was ~86%, including the water I added to the initial dough as well as water used to hydrate the bran separately. I also added 3% vital wheat gluten (as I knew fresh flour may have some issues forming gluten) and a small amount of diastatic malt powder (< 0.2%).

86% total hydration might sound high, but it was split into the dough part ~66% and the bran part ~20%, and the bran easily soaked up all the water I gave it. Prior to adding the bran back the dough was not particularly wet, sticky, or difficult to work, though I was surprised it was not drier, it was more like my ~76% hydration white sourdough loaves with store bought flour.

When I make whole wheat breads, I do typically use strong bread flour and develop the gluten before adding hydrated bran and germ (I think of it as an inclusion). This is my standard practice with handling whole wheat ever since the first time I tried it. The reason is that it produces a whole wheat loaf with the lightness and air of a white loaf—the reasoning I've read is that the bran and germ both play a role in interfering with gluten development (the bran physically cutting up the gluten network as it forms like little razor blades), making for a denser loaf.

I certainly didn't underbake, as this was an experiment I was monitoring everything I could and took the loaves out only once they hit an internal temp of 204°F.

TopBun's picture
TopBun

Thanks for the details on your procedure. You've made me curious about soaking the bran separately! I actually like denser loaves (I often make 100% whole rye sourdough Volkornbrot, talk about dense!) but sometimes people do like a light loaf. 

With that much hydration and a bake to 204F, it does sound like an overfermentation issue. As long as I've made sourdough, I am surprised at how often I will end up over- or under-proofing a dough. It's one of the hardest aspects of baking, and it's all the harder for whole grains.  A lot of fresh-milled flour users, myself included, use a fairly low inoculation of levain, as little as 5 to 10% pre-fermented flour although I've gone up to 25% without too many issues. There are many variables in fermentation speed but I wonder if using less levain would help.

I have also experimented with diastatic malt powder with my fresh-milled flour based on what I've read here at TFL. I am not even close to being a bread scientist, but I found it interesting that in a fairly recent discussion about using fresh-milled flour on the Bread Baker's Guild of America email list, none of the professional bakers seem to use it. In fact, Randy George of Red Hen Bakery in VT said he can't think of a scientific reason to use it, since fresh milled flour is already abundant with enzymatic power and DMP enhances it.  I wonder -- admittedly in near-ignorance -- if it might even degrade the gluten? 

What many of the professionals say they DO use with fresh milled flour is a very small bit of ascorbic acid to strengthen the gluten. I have some I bought from King Arthur online and I use about 1/16th of a teaspoon in an average loaf - the pros use even less, measured in parts per million, but even my microgram scale can't weigh to that resolution for a home formula.

severoon's picture
severoon

Okay, your response here has highlighted a lot of room for improvement.

I added the DMP b/c I reasoned that store bought flour has a little barley malt added, but I didn't stop to think why they add it—to decrease the falling number, which isn't needed for fresh flour, as you say (mistake #1). In my previous experiments with DMP, I know that it tends to make it harder to achieve a cracker crisp crust, so it makes sense that it could potentially make the crumb gummy as well.

Looking at my scaling sheet, I see that I added a whopping 40% mature levain (mistake #2), which I recently switched to freshly milled flour (77% extraction) from store bought white bread flour … but I didn't increase the frequency of feeding, so it was very likely overripe for the same reason (mistake #3).

Did not even think about ascorbic acid (mistake #4?), even though I have an envelope of it sitting in my pantry from Modernist Pantry (great site, btw).

Really glad you responded with this info, I was really stuck with that first fresh flour bake. I didn't expect my first run to go well but I was expecting different problems…when I got hit with these I had no idea where to go next.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Keep at it,  as Top Bun says, there are lots of variables, and getting the timing of bulk fermentation and final proofing is quite a challenge.  I suggest you start with as few variables as possible.  For now at least,  I would skip the additions, and just go with flour water, salt, and starter.  I used to add ascorbic acid, but there was a post here that indicated that excess ascorbic acid has a negative effect, and that the proper range was actually so little, that for home bakers it should not be used.  bakerpedia.com  says the appropriate range is.15 to .20 grams of ascorbic acid per 10 kilograms of flour -  -so for a 1,000 grams of flour, you would add .015 grams , not enough to accurately measure.

I bake with fresh home milled, and don't do the sifting and soaking of the bran anymore, and still can get a fairly open and light crumb.  It just takes lots of trial and error.  My latest recipe uses 8 grams of starter to 450 grams of flour, though that is certainly on the low end of innoculation percentages, it works out well for me.  

I still struggle with over and under proofing - my suggestions would be to use a straight sided container for bulk ferment, and put a rubber band on it to mark the height when you start bulk fermentation,  and note the percentage increase in volume when you stop BF.  If you are using a banneton for FP,  try to use the same size banneton for each bake, and keep the same amount of dough so you can get an idea of what it should look like when it is ready to bake.  

 

TopBun's picture
TopBun

I do like Barry's advice to try reducing the variables to the bare minimum and trying one new thing at a time. You might indeed find it interesting to see what happens with simply flour, water, salt and yeast (starter) while using that wheat. 

A note on levain inoculation rates: Some bakers express this as a percentage of the total flour weight comprised by all of the levain (flour + water), and others calculate the pre-fermented flour in the levain only. In my earlier post I was referencing the pre-fermented flour component only. If you were doing 40% pre-fermented flour, yes that's quite high. 

Staters/levains certainly do go faster with fresh-milled flour, especially 100% extraction. I find I have to refresh my starter more often with fresh-milled flour to keep it from degrading too much and also to reduce the acid load. 

Sounds like you have plenty of new ideas to try - do keep us updated so we can learn from your experiences!

Eric

severoon's picture
severoon

I'm finding your description of calculating inoculation rates a bit hard to parse.

For one thing, it's annoying to me that different bakers use different approaches here. The whole point of baker's % is to easily allow scaling, and the only way that motivation can be preserved is if the total sum of all flours added at the mixing stage is set to 100% and everything else added at the mixing stage is expressed relative to that.

In other words, if I put 1kg of flour into a mixing boil along with 720g water and 100g starter, that's 72% water and 10% starter. It doesn't matter if the starter is 100% hydration liquid levain or a stiff biga, it's got to be measured in baker's % as 10%—otherwise how can I scale this recipe using baker's %?

I've heard a lot of home bakers that get all confused and try to use net % by weight of ingredients instead, but that's not baker's %, it's net %. Net % is very valuable when comparing two different recipes, or creating a new recipe based on another one, so it makes sense to use it in those cases. But intermixing the two systems of measurement doesn't make any kind of sense to me.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Severoon, the reason why a starter (according the the Bread Bakers Guild of America, which tried to set a standard) isn’t calculated as an ingredient makes good sense, IMO. Bread bakers are free to calculate as they choose. Some outstanding bakers choose to calculate the starter differently. If the levain is 100% hydrated it brings equal parts flour and water to the total mix. But is the levain (biga) is 50% hydrated it brings 33.3% water and 66.6% flour. If the individual contents of the levain or biga is not calculated seperately the hydration will not reflect the true percentage os liquids.

I hope this makes sense and helps.

BTW - do you use a spreadsheet? If you want to take a look at mine, I’ll send it to you. But you are correct, the levain is a bone of contention when calculating a spreadsheet. My sheet will calculate the levain when changing total dough weight.

Take a look at THIS LINK. In it you will see an image of a spreadsheet. Notice how the levain is calculated in a linked table of to the side. When the Total dough weight changes, so does the levain (flour, water, seed culture) weights update.

I hope this helps.

Danny

TopBun's picture
TopBun

Severoon, I wasn't very clear in how I wrote that, sorry. Of course baker's math is essential to scaling a formula. The issue is that some bread bakers like to describe inoculation as the levain's percentage of the dough weight, and I too find that unsatisfying because you can't scale from that unless you also know how much water and flour was in the levain. It does make a difference if it's a liquid levain or a stiff biga - because the levain has water and flour and that goes into the total hydration of the dough! 

That's why I prefer the BBGA method of not counting the levain as an ingredient in the formula, and instead focusing on the baker's percent of pre-fermented flour (i.e the flour content of the levain). The levain is considered, of course, but only as its flour and water contribute to the total flour and water weights (and baker's percentage) in the final dough. 

As Danny says, there are disagreements about this in the bread baking community. The best we can do is find out what a baker means when they say their inoculation was 20%. If I say that, I mean that 20% of the flour was pre-fermented, i.e. included in the levain.  Someone else means that it was 20% of the dough weight, or maybe the flour weight, I don't know -- I find either one confusing!

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I mill my wheat too. I mill once at coarse setting then sieve with a kitchen sieve to take out the coarse bran. Remill the rest on fine setting and use it the next day.  I add the bran as part of my flour in the final levain build. the wee beasties just love it, the bran is soaked (hydration usually 100%).  I autolyse the rest of the flour (bread & wholewheat) for 30-60 minutes. seems to work ok for me.? Admittedly haven’t tried 100% ww yet.

Leslie

 

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

for arguments sake 20% then that means prefermented flour and water (starter) to flour in the final recipe. 20% starter won't mean 20% of all flour prefermented because starter isn't just flour. If a recipe gives a percentage of starter! but means just the flour within the starter then it's wrong. 

I've seen recipes given as how much prefermented flour but they're clear on that. They normally have a couple of tables with one giving how much prefermented flour and the other how hydrated the starter should be. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The BBGA uses the “percentage of total flour preferment”. So if the % is 10% prefermented flour and the total flour for the formula is 1000 grams, the the levain should contain 100g of flour. The hydration has no bearing on the % flour prefermented. When the levain is mixed into the final dough, 900g flour is mixed. This makes complete sense to me.

Believe me, this is a brain twister until it is finally understood.

Dan

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

% of prefermented flour then that is correct. It is the total amount of flour prefermented in the levain. No recipe should give a percentage of "starter" or "levain" only and mean the flour because starter or levain are flour and water. 

You can work out how hydrated the starter or levain is subtracting the water added from the final hydration and that'll indicate how hydrated the preferment is. 

There shouldn't be any confusion in tables however the table is laid out. 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

and using BBGA spreadsheet. Dan and I both worked on this and it is great.

However Trevor Wilson often calculates his levain differently.  He decides what % of the total DOUGH weight that he wants the levain to be.  a different calculation, but the spreadsheet can handle that. you just need to know which method you are using.  

Hamelman often makes more levain than needed, the extra being the seed for the next batch.  that too can be taken into account in the spreadsheet. 

Lots of ways to make it work once you understand the way it works.  

most of all, enjoy the journey!

Leslie