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Feedback and rate it. 75% ww. 82% hydr.

Bigblue's picture
Bigblue

Feedback and rate it. 75% ww. 82% hydr.

Mainly changed hydration and proof time from last loaf. Slightly lower bake temp too.

  • 82% hydr.
  • 500g total flour. 75% ww. 1.8% salt.
  • Anita's sprouted organic ww.
  • Bread flour.
  • 100% hydrated sds at 8.5% fermented flour weight (17% hydrated weight).
  • 50m AL with sds. Then ST&Fs for 5m add salt.
  • Only 3 folds per turn rather than 4 (Small detail but that's C.Robertson vs T.Wilson). Turns every 30m.
  • 3hr BF looked about 20-40% increase (CR/TW recommend ~20%). Definitely active, airy, bubbling, light, etc.
  • 25m bench rest. 4.5hr proof as dough was still springing finger poke out. Rose high in banneton compared to last, quite sure last loaf was underproofed.
  • Loaf in at 500 then reduced to 450 for 20m. Then 450 uncovered for 20m. 5m 400.

 

Loaf is easily the softest crust I've baked and I'm guessing it's the 82% hydration? Cooled over night, cut this morning.

Loaf is easily the largest 500g I've baked, very wide filled out pan, but decent height, and I'll call it the crumb I was going for, very open especially for 75% ww.

Aesthetically, I'd prefer less of a wide based loaf and a bit more height. I'm wondering if:

  1. I should drop hydration to perhaps about ~74% but mimic the rest for open crumb. Maybe the loaf base will stay tighter. I could add another fold near the end of bulk or in preform.
  2. Increase starter as baker's % which will reduce ferment time a bit, perhaps decrease proteolytic activity and keep gluten strength for height? (Seems there is always the tradeoff of height vs open crumb with ww?)
  3. There are other suggestions I could get to eventually: Lower hydration starter; cold/retarded ferment; long AL.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Going to eat it now :)

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

My 50% whole grain home milled bread today was 78% hydration with the other 50% of the flour LaFama AP.  If I would have used bread flour I would have been at 80%  Cut the hydration to 75% and see how it goes next time.  That should solve things for you

PS I miss read this I though it said 7.5% WW not 75% .  *32 % hydration would be fine for that using bread flour for the 25%.  It is still too flat.

Try 20 minutes at 450 F then is ff for 16 minutes at 425 F.  That should give you about 208 F on the inside for a baked loaf that weighs 1000 g.  45 minutes is too long and will give you a charred looking loaf like yours.

Happy baking 

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

My view:  crumb looks good, good proofing.  Clearly overbaked, so too long and/or too hot.  The shaping looks problematic, which could be due to many factors, including hydration, skill level, overproofing of dough, among others.  The crust separation reminds me of my failures with Hamelman's miche recipes, which were so wet I had trouble shaping them.  They spread like a pancake and can barely be scored, then they blow up like a balloon in the oven.  It looks inflated in that same way to me.

Bigblue's picture
Bigblue

Interesting. How do you know it's overbaked? No char. I would not have thought so. I was actually thinking of baking it for the 20m at 500 next time rather than dropping it to 450 as the high hydration seemed to have kept the crust soft.

I think the slight loaf base irregularity is my transfer from the banneton to the DO. I flipped it to my spread hand as gently as possible but then putting another hand under it and easing to the hot shallow side of the DO may deform it slightly. Still holding off from using parchment paper... The boule was formed to a nice taught sphere with some structural folding beforehand. 

Do you think one bubble near the surface is less desirable? I don't think that qualifies it as flying-crust. Just a larger alveoli in that spot which I kinda don't mind. I know all of this is subjective but still fun to shoot for improvements.

Filomatic's picture
Filomatic

A number of the photos show a pretty dark bake.  That's just my view.  It's your bread, so if you like it that way, cheers.

As to the shape, to me it looks as if it has ballooned.  That isn't necessarily bad, but I would contend that crust separation is not desirable by anyone.  The bakes I have had where that happened look quite similar to how yours look.  Some of them were delicious, but I still considered them mistakes.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

What size is the banneton?

Or try proofing in a bread pan or form to help hold up the sides.

Bigblue's picture
Bigblue

10" round banneton. I was wondering if I should go smaller myself... My 500g flour weight dough proofs to just some of the dough breaking the plane of the top.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

sieve, colander, empty tissue box, that could be used.  Another trick is to roll a dish towel and line the banneton with a donut shaped stuffing under the liner to make it smaller in diameter while keeping it deep.  Will have to experiment with the sizes. But I think there is not enough WW dough in that banneton,  too close to the minimum dough amount for a 10 incher.  Could try going up to 600g flour and see what happens.  :)

Bigblue's picture
Bigblue

I'm also wondering if the effects of a 100% sprouted ww started and 75% of the loaf being sprouted ww is affecting the gluten structure. From what I'm reading, quite likely.

So perhaps I'll reduce hydration to 75% (hopefully still high enough to get an open crumb with ww) and increase the starter to a baker's formula 24%.  The idea being that sprouted wheat needs less water to hydrate; high-hydration might sacrifice the dough structure that is already compromised by high enzymatic activity and the bran and germ shards tearing gluten; and the higher % of starter should decrease the ferment time, hopefully keep the gluten structure stronger. (Not sure I am using all those concepts correctly).

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

and use the coarse bran in your levain. that way the “sharp” bits have much longer time to soften. the levain beasties just love bran!  and it is like super food to them.  Just adjust your flours for levain and final dough accordingly. then just proceed as before. this way gluten is less impacted by the bran. Dabrownman and Danni3113 inspired me to do this and it really helps.

happy baking

Leslie

Bigblue's picture
Bigblue

Perhaps I will, thanks. Might need a finer sieve. Tried it the other day and my sprouted flour is ground pretty fine, didn't catch much, so I need a different strainer.

Reading through Reinhart's Whole Grain Breads now. Interesting how several times he states sprouted need more water to hydrate but I've seen comments other places saying the opposite.

Might consider an 80% hydrated levain as some TFL members have suggested. Reinhart claims it holds its structure better especially with ww and adds nice tang.

Also, a shorter proof from a warmer environment aiding in structural integrity sounds interesting. I'll try this this week.