March 7, 2018 - 5:19pm
STRETCH AND FOLD - WHY?
Dear Bakers,
I have been struggling with Baguettes for a long time. Most recipes suggest the Stretch and Fold method.
However, none of the french recipes that I have I seen mention Stretch and Fold. For example,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkHsbchF2-g
Why is that? granted, they use professional bread mixers, and french flour, but home mixers can be pretty powerful and efficient, and one can get here French, Italian, and Canadian flour. So, what am I missing?
David
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It is a matter of personal preference. I prefer to do hand kneading, or with a very slack dough the stand mixer is the only feasible way. To my way of thinking the hand kneading gives a better development of the dough structure than does the stretch and fold.
Ford
Thank you, Ford. Why would one prefer hand kneading to a stand mixer?
David
Personal preference. I get satisfaction from getting involved with the process and with the dough!
Ford
David:
Stretch & Folds go hand-in-hand with slow-fermented dough. Mixing to max gluten development in the mixer is typical with fast-fermented dough. And the more you mix, the more oxidized the dough. That means whiter and less flavorful.
The video you posted shows fully developing the gluten in the mixer, but they put the dough into the fridge to slow down the fermentation, so it's a bit of a compromise. It's probably too time-consuming for a commercial enterprise to stretch & fold.
But how do you achieve the "stretch test" with out full gluten development? (The test where you take a peace of dough and srertch it between fingers and it has to stretch thin without breaking, doesn't that only appear when you mix it for a long time)
David,
You can see that he used the mixer again one hour later when he checked the fully developing gluten in the video (3:56/7:55).
He did that to give strength to the dough instead of S&F.
thank you all. I learned something new from each comment. I was not aware that more mixing means more oxidation, and its negative effects. And I also love the feel of kneading. I guess I'll use a combination of mixer at first for a couple of minutes, and then stretch and fold at 30 minutes intervals for a 90 minutes, before refrigerating. What do you think?
and thanks again,
David
Awesome. That's what I do. For small batches, I use the food processor for just 15 seconds for the initial mix.
bread making is between alchemy and pure magic.
David
Some people love mixers, some prefer to do everything by hand. It's whatever your preference is. It is important to get a feel for the dough whichever way you go.
The dough in the video was mixed with a spiral mixer - one of the best ways of developing gluten. Incidentally, it wasn't intensively mixed - 3 minutes on high speed is classically known as an "improved mix".
I think most non-domestic craft bakers will tend to mix like this and then do two or three stretch and folds during bulk.
With a domestic mixer, you would probably need well upwards of 6 minutes to get the same gluten development.
Lance
Hi Lance,
You say that "with a domestic mixer, you would need probably upward of 6 minutes to get the same gluten development"
Do you mean without Stretch and Fold (S&F)? What about a combination of mixer and S&F?
One comment was that a mixer causes oxidation and lose of flavor. What is your opinion?
BTW, Louis, the baker in the video, mixes 8 minutes on slow speed, plus 3 minutes on high speed, plus 1 minute after one hour rest.
David
Personally, I think the danger of overmixing and oxidation/loss of flavour is exaggerated. As an example, one of my favourite baking "follows" on Instagram is Baltic Bakehouse and recently he did a Trial Mix with 18 minutes on speed 2. I didn't taste that bread, but appearance-wise it doesn't seem to have suffered!
I tend to mechanically mix to a good gluten development (dough gets tight and windowpanes) and then do two or three S&Fs in bulk. I like a nice warm bulk too - 27 or 28C.
Having said all this, if you are making baguettes, you may be barking up the wrong tree. Baguettes by their nature are a low loft structure and may not need an extensive gluten "scaffold".
I don't make baguettes very often, but last time I did, I used the Solveig Tofte Team USA formula as linked in This TFL Post. It only has 45s speed 2 mixing, but I was pleased with the results (apart from my shaping!) and so must jimbtv be as he makes them three times a week!
Lance
Lance,
thank you, I find it all most interesting, and the link you provided to the Solveig Tofte formula sheds more light on the process. I am going to incorporate it all in my baking, and see what happens.
Thanks,
David