February 11, 2018 - 1:06am
Sourdough Bread not rising enough
My starter doubles in size after about 2 1/2 hours in oven with light on, and i bake bread with it, and then even after six hours of rising i dont see any difference really. Oven spring is great, but mostly semi tight crumb with some big holes. Any ideas why it doesnt rise? ( ps: It passes the float test without problem)
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...that I'm in too much of hurry. And I rarely refresh my starter before using it even if its a week or two since the last time I did refresh it.
So, as long as your ambient temperature in your rising space is 70-85 F, just wait it out. Unless, of course, you're doing something that might be killing your starter, like mixing lots of salt into it before you add the flour, heating it much to high for the yeast to survive, or chilling it and thereby putting it to sleep.
Don't be in a hurry.
What are you using to Bulk Ferment the dough? Maybe if you Ferment it in a clear container you would be able to find signs of fermention. Like small bubbles in the sides and/or bottom of the container.
Also the size of your container can make a big difference in determine growth or rise. Both of the dough’s pictured below are identical and equal sized. They were fermented at the same time and all things where equal.
I find it best to use a appropriate sized container with a smaller diameter. I do the same thing for my starters and Levains. You can see the starters/levains along with these containers here. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/399388#comment-399388
HTH
Dan
I dont bulk ferment !
Is that nesesairy? And what is it good for?
I usually just knead my dough and then pop it right into the mold. Is that why? I heard that when you bulk ferment you just let it rise for like 12 hours?
Could you go into detail how its done?
Yes, Bulk Fermenting really should be done. Some of it may be of interest to you.
A little clarification. I think the following is correct. Here goes. Technically, the dough ferments from the time the yeast or starter is mixed into the dough until the heat of the oven kills that yeast. I know on the TFL we use these 2 terms often. The Bulk Ferment (BF) and the Proof. I’ve heard some use the term “Prove” also. The Fermentation that takes place BEFORE shaping is basically the BF. During the BF the dough’s main purpose is to develop flavor. And even though the flavor continues to develop during the Proofing stage it’s main purpose (proofing) is to raise the bread. Now, the cold proof is for flavor also (used to extend the total fermentation time) and a lot of the time the dough in the refrigerator rises very little if any during this time. And if we bake straight out of the frig without a bench rest, we rely on oven spring to accomplish the rise.
The Bulk Ferment is used to greatly enhance the flavor of your bread. After the BF is complete you will preshape and then shape. This begins the Proof. The dough will continue to gain flavor through fermentation in this stage but the main purpose here is to raise(rise) the bread for baking.
Search the forum for “Bulk Ferment” for more info.
Suggestion - it might be best if you where to follow a proven recipe. Learn to bake it well and then as you gain experience you could venture out on your own. Yesterday we starter a bake that might appeal to you. If you want you can follow the recipe/formula and post your progress on that link. You will find help there for your bake. See this link. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/55230/anyone-interested-champlain-sd-bake
Danny
so we know what you are doing. If you are following a no-knead recipe, then you might not be bulk fermenting. But then again, you said you were kneading so... we really need more detail.
You bring up a point that interest me. If you are doing a no knead type bread, by S&F then go on to shaping, is the BF technically absent. Or is the S&F time considered a BF?
I never thought about that before I read your post. I know this is a technicality, but I’m interested to know.
Danny
no knead bread. That's the one I am referring to. If I remember right, you just mix up the dough, let it rise overnight and bake in the morning. After the initial mixing, you don't touch it aside from baking it.
What we do, although we call it no kneading, really is a different form of kneading. Stretches and folds, slap and folds, envelope folds are all really just a different way of kneading.
And to answer your question, the BF happens while you are doing the S&F.
My recipe is basically one part starter, two parts water, three parts flour.
Creates a fairly wet dough but not a shaggy mess.
more specifically : 300 g flour, 200 grams of water, 100 g starter, and some salt. i knead with slap and fold, then i shape it and put it in a mold for about 6 hours, and i cant see any noticable difference after those 6 hours.
I should add that i my starter i made from 50/50 whole grain rye flour and high gluten wheat flour. And if i dont feed with rye flour, it barely rises, Maybe 40% or so but definetaly doesnt double.
Hi there,
I am not an expert but from my own experience a 'healthy' starter it a MUST to get good fermentation.
This is a good link to see an example of what a starter should look and behave like and helped me get a feel for what to look for - I cannot really tell from your small photo but the link below might be a good reference....
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/sourdough-starter-maintenance-routine/
Trevor J. Wilson also showed some useful photos on his IG account.
Once you are confident with your starter, you then can decide what SD recipe to go for with what hydration? I hope this helps and I am working with 70% hydration doughs at the moment to learn and then build up to higher hydration and manage those beasts... Kat
Hi,
I agree with need to see the recipe but from what you are describing it sounds like under fermentation of some sort and this could be due to a weak starter or not enough fermentation during the bulk fermentation. I think some baker's refer to this a 'fools crumb' with big holes and dense areas around it and Trevor J Wilson describes this very well in his book 'The Open Crumb'....but I am not an expert...
I actually had some very good results with the 'no knead' method that Danni mentions above with Jim Lahey- in fact some of my best breads were done like this but I wanted to also manage the Stretch and Fold method as I felt I learn more about managing fermentation.
I think the basic idea is that instead of the S & F you let 'time' in the fridge do the job of gluten creation at a slower pace....
However, I found that I have to watch my fridge as it is not the coldest and you can overproof..... I hope this helps.... Kat
If my starter is too weak, what do i do to strenthen it? How often sjould i feed it? Is 15 days still too weak?
Hi,
I agree with need to see the recipe but from what you are describing it sounds like under fermentation of some sort and this could be due to a weak starter or not enough fermentation during the bulk fermentation. I think some baker's refer to this a 'fools crumb' with big holes and dense areas around it and Trevor J Wilson describes this very well in his book 'The Open Crumb'....but I am not an expert...
I actually had some very good results with the 'no knead' method that Danni mentions above with Jim Lahey- in fact some of my best breads were done like this but I wanted to also manage the Stretch and Fold method as I felt I learn more about managing and understanding fermentation and becoming a better baker for it.
I think the basic idea is that instead of the S & F you let 'time' in the fridge do the job of gluten creation at a slower pace....
However, I found that I have to watch my fridge as it is not the coldest and you can overproof..... I hope this helps.... Kat