The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

New Zealand flours

mrvegemite's picture
mrvegemite

New Zealand flours

Hi,

I have been baking sourdough breads for a while now in a wood fired oven and would like anyone's thoughts on New Zealand Flours.  I daily scroll through TFL and enjoy the posts and would like any TFL users with experience of NZ flours to share their advice.  My problem is that when I increase the hydration above 75% my loaf's flatten quite consistently therefore I tend to stick around the 70% hydration and have had a lot of consistent success with both seeded, white and rewana breads.  Are our local flours relatively weak when using higher hydration or is there a flour brand/technique/added gluten I need to consider.  Any advice from all TFL users would be appreciated.  

Thanks

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Leslie is from NZ also. She has recently been testing this very matter. See her post.  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54934/experimemtation-next-step

Dan

mrvegemite's picture
mrvegemite

I had read this post and wasn't aware it was from a NZ baker, interesting write up though.  Would be good to hear if anyone has looked into 80% hydration for sourdough loaves.  I have made ciabatta using poolish and commercial yeast at 89% hydration that held its shape well.  I use the same process for all my loaves which is

refresh starter 3 times (combination of white with small amount of ryemeal/whole meal flours)
use starter young
autolyse then bulk ferment with stretch and folds
pre-shape bench rest/shape and finish proof in refrigerator overnight
slash and bake straight from the fridge in DO

Would a dough with a hydration of say 80% ferment faster than one of 70%? I do work the higher hydration doughs a bit more to get the gluten development which has me thinking maybe NZ flour's don't hold larger amounts of water that well? I have not baked in America/Canada/UK etc where on TFL it is mentioned that the flours are very strong and can take a lot of water

Cheers

 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

And by chance, yesterday, quite unintentionally I made 2 different 80% hydration loaves.  I am just starting to write up so if you have another look later you can see what happened. 

Will leave others to comment on rate of fermentation. 

Leslie

mrvegemite's picture
mrvegemite

Look forward to your post Leslie, what brands of flour are you using for your sourdoughs now and from the previous post on gluten flour

 

Cheers

 

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

I do not like Champion so haven't used that for several years.  More recently it was Countdown but when I compared this with Edmonds, I preferred the Edmonds.  Then I did that comparison with the added gluten and I was comparing Edmonds with Pams.

Result is that I am using Pams from my local 4 Square and boosting it with some gluten.  I have just used up the last of the Countdown flour that I was using in my starter & levains so now will finish the Edmonds I have here instead.  After today's bake (yesterdays prep) I am wondering about the influence of the small amount of flour in the levain and wondering if this may not have had an impact.  Will see what happens to the next bake and see how I go.

Anyway, good to see another kiwi baker - I am a bit obsessed these days.  Have you read Trevor J Wilson's book yet?

Leslie

mrvegemite's picture
mrvegemite

Read your new post this morning, interesting to see what happened with your loaves with the increase in hydration.  I have a similar trouble when I past the 75% hydration mark with my sourdough.  I do add rye meal and whole meal flours which may affect the gluten structure along with amount of starter in final dough.  I guess perseverance is the key here and hopefully someone on this site can offer more advice on this subject.  Thanks for your in depth posts and happy baking Leslie

kendalm's picture
kendalm

Hey southern hemi crew ! While on the topic since you guys are practically and extension of tassie (just winding you up no offense) so wondering if you have experience with any oz brands. Reason for asking as you may know im a transplant in Los Angeles from Sydney and have really fond memories of the incredible pizza that we used to eat way back when I was a spotty brat - in USA pizza tastes nothing like the stuff we got from the smaller Italian pizzarias and I always wondered if maybe the flour was the reason. Since my mother goes down somewhat regularly I've been thinking of placing an order (ie bring me back some flour along with all the musk sticks and lollies I can't get here). Several years ago she grabbed a bag of birds eye AP but was using for short crust at the time.  I am sure its hard to really respond if you haven't tried American flour but let's just say that like many things here it's pretty but lacks certain flavor so just wondering if you've got any experience or insight in general, let's just call it 'anzac' flour. Any thoughts or comments would be fantastic. Thanks

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

just that they are better than ours.  the only one I have used is Laucke 00 for pizza, but I have yet to get pizza the way I want. 

Maybe one of the aussie TFLers can help

Leslie

kendalm's picture
kendalm

it's rather difficult to find someone who's used both and Australian / NZ flour as well as am American. About all I know is that Australian wheat is hard wheat in fact when I was really young we used to visit family friends who had a wheat farm in WA wheat belt and stay there for a week at a time - the landscape is out of this world and amazing anything grows there - very different to the lush NZ landscape (I would imagine NZ os better for growing wheat)

mrvegemite's picture
mrvegemite

Sorry, I am unfamiliar with aussie flours also being based here in Wellington NZ, I have used a little bit of organic aussie flour and found it quite weak also but it was a long time ago and my knowledge with sourdough baking was limited then which could have affected my bread results.