The Fresh Loaf

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Dough not Rising in the Fridge

kreyszig's picture
kreyszig

Dough not Rising in the Fridge

I have been having this issue where my dough does not rise in the fridge, but rises nicely in the room or in my oven with the light turned on. I tried multiple times to do a final rise in the fridge between 9 hours up to 24 hours without success. On what does a successful final rise in the fridge depends exactly? My fridge temperature is around 39F. Is your fridge significantly warmer, or is it the culture in my starter/dough that does not like cold?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

One I find makes my dough rise in the fridge the other comes to a standstill. Yes their will be other factors at play here like how cold is your fridge, starter % and how well the bulk ferment is done but I do believe the starter culture itself will play a factor. 

I'm more adventurous with the bulk ferment when using said starter and give it some bench time before refrigerating. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Some flours become very stiff in the cold... rye for instance.  The more rye in the dough the stiffer it will become as it cools.  

A refrigerator with a cooling fan inside will also chill faster and drastically slow down a final proof.  It can also dry out the "skin" of the loaf if not properly covered.

39°F is very cool indeed for dough and it can stop yeast fermentation.

kreyszig's picture
kreyszig

I notice that even my 100% hydration starter barely produces bubbles in the fridge, while it doubles easily at room temperature. One solution I guess would be to start my final rise at room temperature and finish it in the fridge once the rise is well on its way. What do you think would be a more appropriate fridge temperature for proofing? I am using the main fridge of the house and 39F seems to be the recommended temperature to preserve food in general, so this is why it is currently set at this temperature. Having a fridge just for proofing would be ideal

AndyPanda's picture
AndyPanda

I asked the same question recently. I had used a couple of starters that would rise in my fridge but neither had the flavor I was looking for. Then I got some San Francisco starter with the perfect sour tang I wanted and to my surprise it will not rise one bit in my fridge.

So I have been learning to work with it because the flavor is so good. This starter seems to work best if I retard it around 45-50F. I've been doing that using one of those gel packs you keep in the freezer to put on aching muscles - I put the dough in an insulated box with one ice pack and that has been working great for an overnight slow rise.

kreyszig's picture
kreyszig

Thanks for the info! I will try warmer temperature then. I will check the temperature of my cold storage room, it might be around that at this time of the year.

wally's picture
wally

At 39 degrees, sourdough becomes inactive. Even bakers yeast will show very little fermentative activity at that temp.  If you want to achieve overnight retardaction with your shaped loaves - say 12 hrs or more under refrigeration - my advice is to allow the loaves to proof at room temp until they are 3/4’s fully proofed. Then cover & place them under refrigeration. The final 25% of your proofing will occur while the loaves are cooling. Next day, bake them straight out of the refrigerator without allowing them to come to room temp.

kreyszig's picture
kreyszig

Thank you, it makes a lot of sense! I will follow your advice.

sagvig's picture
sagvig

How can I recover? The dough was beautiful at the shaping stage (at least, I think so, I'm still relatively new to this...) My loaf didn't rise at all in its banneton in refrigerator overnight. Do I just take it out and let it come up to room temp and wait for it to puff up? I'm used to doing the final rise at room temp or slightly elevated and wanted to give overnight/refrigerator a try.

sagvig's picture
sagvig

(This is an adaptation of a Tartine recipe BTW... ) I turned my microwave into a warm proofing box (75 F) and checked the dough in the banetton every 10-15 minutes for a little over an hour (repeating the poke test till I was satisfied). The dough rose/puffed a little but not much. Relying on the poke test, I decided to go ahead and bake - my oven heats quickly - preheated to 475 F. Scored and slid onto baking stone, covered with pre-heated stoneware cloche, turned temp down to 450, baked for 20 minutes, removed cloche (beautiful oven spring !). Baked another 20 minutes, checked internal temp (about 203). Beautiful crust and "ears." Removed to rack to cool (at least 3 hours). Cut open - nice distribution of holes, but crumb is a gummy, gelatinous texture. Edible, but not ideal. What am I doing wrong? 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Start a forum thread, or make a blog post, with the exact formula/procedures that you used, and I bet people will chime in with good ideas and opinions.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Have you got a picture of the bottom of the loaf?  I'm wondering if the stone was heated enough and if the loaf baked long enough on it.  

sagvig's picture
sagvig

It's actually a baking steel, not a stone but I just refer to it as my baking stone. It was plenty hot - I waited a good amount of time after the oven came to temp to be sure the steel and the cloche were hot. The bottom crust was nice and brown.  This is the exact formula (from the Food 52 post linked to above):

100 grams active starter 
*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(2)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(4)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(50)>*:nth-child(3)" data-ae_styles="">350 grams warm water, about 80°F, plus more for your hands 
*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(2)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(4)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(50)>*:nth-child(4)" data-ae_styles="">450 grams all-purpose flour 
*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(2)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(4)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(50)>*:nth-child(5)" data-ae_styles="">50 grams whole wheat or spelt flour 
*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(2)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(4)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(50)>*:nth-child(6)" data-ae_styles="">10 grams kosher salt 
*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(2)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(4)>*:nth-child(1)>*:nth-child(50)>*:nth-child(7)" data-ae_styles="">rice flour, for dusting

This is essentially the Tartine formula cut in half, and the same method. Baked covered and uncovered as described above. Pictures to follow.

sagvig's picture
sagvig

It's actually a baking steel, not a stone but I just refer to it as my baking stone. It was plenty hot - I waited a good amount of time after the oven came to temp to be sure the steel and the cloche were hot. The bottom crust was nice and brown. This is the exact formula (from the Food 52 post linked to above):

100 grams active starter
350 grams warm water, about 80°F, plus more for your hands
450 grams all-purpose flour
50 grams whole wheat or spelt flour
10 grams kosher salt
rice flour, for dusting

This is essentially the Tartine formula cut in half, and the same method. Baked covered and uncovered as described above.
Pictures to follow.

sagvig's picture
sagvig

sagvig's picture
sagvig

sagvig's picture
sagvig

Unfortunately no picture of bottom crust, but it was brown and temp registered ~203 F. I was very pleased with this appearance. (Brown bottom crust has not been my experience with Cloche top paired w/its stoneware bottom, both pre-heated.)

 

 

 

sagvig's picture
sagvig

This photo seems to exaggerate the gumminess...

sagvig's picture
sagvig

This photo seems to minimize the gumminess of the crumb - it's hard to capture. As I said, the bread is edible - but better toasted than not. I'm looking to the Fresh Loafers to help me improve and troubleshoot. Aside from the gumminess how do you judge my crumb structure? I welcome all constructive criticism. I know for some it's a matter of taste. (Here you can kind of see the bottom crust too...)

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I thought there would be bread found in the "money pit" on Oak Island.  :)

I'm not so familiar with Tartine but a few things stand out.  Internal temp of finished bake seems low to me for a lean dough.  

How's the starter?  

Did you get much rise before shaping?

Does the bread have a strong sour flavour?

sagvig's picture
sagvig

Oh Mini Oven, I hope you come back to finish your thought!

sagvig's picture
sagvig

Mini Oven, I saw that you had replied but when I refreshed the page all I saw was your headline and an empty message. After several minutes/refreshes your reply showed up. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to help me.

 

I'm not so familiar with Tartine but a few things stand out.  

Chad Robertson, owns Tartine bakery in San Francisco and perfected a method for home bakers to make sourdough bread close to his which is detailed in his book, Tartine. Here's a good article: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/dining/be-patient-and-make-tartines-country-bread-your-own.html

Internal temp of finished bake seems low to me for a lean dough

Good to know! I'd been working with the idea that 190 was optimal, but after doing some more Googling, seems like 208 is appropriate for lean sourdough? (Maybe I should go even higher - 210?)

How's the starter?  

I think it's good, but I'm new to this - I fed it three times over two days (2d day was baking day). I am relying on what I see and read in books, blog posts, videos and forums like this. It doubled and seemed nice and bubbly and sweet smelling.  (However, I really wish I had someone experienced standing over my shoulder to day "That's what it's supposed to smell/look/feel like!")

Did you get much rise before shaping?

Yes, I think so, but with a half recipe, judging rise is a little more challenging in my dough bucket. It did seem like it had doubled and was billowy, but again, wish I had someone looking over my shoulder. 

Does the bread have a strong sour flavour?

I am not sure if I would say "strong" - but sourness is definitely there, perhaps a bit more than I'd like.  I attributed that to overnight proofing. 

sagvig's picture
sagvig

I've been reading today that gumminess may be caused by too long with the steam, i.e. remove the cloche, lid, inverted stockpot or what have you after 10 or 15 minutes, not 20. That and baking to a higher temp may resolve this. I hope. If you have any further insights (over/under proofing, poor shaping, etc.) I'd love to hear them.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

baking longer first and see if that helps.  A sour bread with a new starter is often an indication that the bacterial to yeast balance is off, not enough yeast.  A larger flour feeding before use may correct it if the feedings are too low.