The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Underproofed? Pan not hot enough?

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

Underproofed? Pan not hot enough?

Hi guys I think we need an article in the lessons section to show different dough defects and what this means.

Can someone please take a look at my baked loaf and tell me why it has a denser bottom (65-68% hydration 20/80 WW to all purpose)? Underproofed? Cast iron pan not hot enough (250C for 40min). 

Just don't see a nice upward holes, though I did get a nice oven spring, but could be much better. It did feel like it needs another 30-60 min of proofing time, but I lost 2 loafs night before (fell asleep during last 30 min of proofing and were badly overproofed)

aroma's picture
aroma

...proving is extremely difficult to judge - I find the poke test unreliable so with me, it is just down to eye.  It is always better to underprove than overprove but trying to guess 80% proved is a judgement.  Your loaf looks ok for a 80/20 and 65% hydration - try using more water (70%) and a 'strong' bread flour for greater aeration.

 

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

Looking at the crumb of this loaf, I can see that the crumb is lined up towards to the top of the loaf. But on mine the crumb is showing mostly no direction

MonkeyDaddy's picture
MonkeyDaddy

Do you proof upside down in a basket, or right side up on a board?  

I have had a couple loaves turn out dense at the bottom like that, and when I look back on the process they are almost always ones that I remember having had a difficult time shaping.  Remember to be increasingly gentle as the loaf nears completion.  And if you're not proofing in a bowl/basket give it a try - when you turn it out of the basket the dense bottom is now on top and the bubbles have a chance to redistribute.

 

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

This loaf was a pleasure to shape after my previous 75%+ attempts

It is proofed in a basket upside down

Can the way I slash it make a difference to the oven spring? This one I tgought was a bit underproofed so I did 3 slashes in a triangular shape. They opened up nicely, but I do not know if that taken the rise power away from the loaf

Chaugar's picture
Chaugar

The dense bottom comes from a relatively dry dough and a long bake.  Your loaf isn't over baked per se but the bake time is long relative  to the hydration of the dough.  To correct that, either increase the hydration a bit, bake at a slightly higher temp (thus shorter bake), or put the loaf on a rack above the stone or out of the dutch oven for the last 15-20m of the bake.  The quickest and likely best fix is the last suggestion.  Move the loaf up or away from the source of heat sometime in the 2nd half of the Bake.  

Your 2nd inquiry is about the directionlaity of the holes in the crumb.  That comes from having a longer bulk, and/or longer rest after preshaping AND how you shape the loaf.  The longer bulk and rest period after preshaping (if needed) allows the dough to be more aerrated for shaping.  The way the dough is shaped, specifically the way it is rolled up gives directionality to the crumb.  

Chau

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

Thank you. The longer bake time is because I want a darker crust - better flavour 

I thought that the shape or directions of the bubbles indicated the direction of gas movement? I did not mean the crumb itself but the gas holes direction.

I preshape the loaf tight and leave to rest for 20-30min. Then tighten again.

Chaugar's picture
Chaugar

Yes you can still get a dark loaf by baking at a higher temp and shorter time.  Still bake it dark but doing this gives you a thinner crust overall and preserves more moisture in the crumb.  You'll have to play with the baking  time and temp.  Again, easiest fix is to place the loaf on a rack (not touching the stone or Dutch oven) half way through the bake.  This will prevent the bottom from overbaking and getting too thick. 

All gas moves up.  The size of the bubbles is caused by a longer bulk and/or post preshape rest.  The shape of directionality of the bubbles is caused by how you shape your loaf and how long it's rested before baking.  And the shape if the bubbles gives the crumb it's unique look.  So were talking about the same thing here. 

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

Got it. High temp, shorter bake.

I read that oven spring only happens in the first 10-15 min. How is moving the loaf from the pan direct to the rack (after lid is removed and oven spring is over) helps with a dense bottom? Just trying to understand 

Chaugar's picture
Chaugar

It helps because it won't bake directly on that hot surface as long.  Instead of sitting directly on a hot baking surface, you'll have a layer of air under the crust which insulates it to an extent.   Therefore you'll have less formation of a bottom crust.  

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

OK, but still think that we are talking about 2 different things. Backing on the rack should help with the crust and crumb that is directly above it (will try that, as my bread is always hard to cut).

But I was more concerned that bottom part of the crumb (dense, hardly any air pockets)

Chaugar's picture
Chaugar

I see what you are asking now.  I misunderstood you earlier.  I thought you were asking why your bottom crust was so thick.  Sorry about that.  Looking at your pic, the top of the loaf also has a similar dense portion.   I have no idea what woyld cause this phenomenon.

 

Chau   

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

Ok, tried another loaf. Different recipe/procedure - had no time to wait for its final proof, so left on the fridge for around 12 hours. Average oven spring, but I wanted to try high temp/shorter bake and took the loaf from the pan after 15 min with the lid on. The loaf came out looking nice and darkish, but still a thick crust that is hard to get through with a knife

SergeyAU's picture
SergeyAU

not "on the fridge" but "in the fridge". How do you edit your comments?

AndyPanda's picture
AndyPanda

To edit your post, you look at the bottom right and you should see this and you click on "edit"