The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

what to do with white corn flour ?

restless baker's picture
restless baker

what to do with white corn flour ?

hey everyone, thanks for all the support and awesome replies to my posts. I have one question, recently I went out to buy some corn meal ( yellow color flour ) but instead, i got some white corn flour by mistake.  please let me know what kind of bread or cakes or .. I can bake with white corn flour? what can I do with it? I would appreciate if you could share any recipes or links 

thanks 

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

There is no difference between white and yellow cornmeal except the color. Use them the same as you would the other.

cgap's picture
cgap

White and yellow corn meal are generally interchangeable, but corn flour is entirely different.

Corn flour is white, powdery and very fine. Corn meal is considerably coarser.

So now you have a packet of corn flour, try this:

SHORTBREAD.

             250 gms. soft butter

             125    "    icing sugar

             250    "    cornflour

             125    "    white flour

                            pinch salt.

 

Beat butter and icing sugar together until light and fluffy, add other ingredients sifted together.   Mix well and knead until it sticks together, then make into two rolls and chill in fridge until firm.  Cut into rounds and bake in slow oven (you will know your own 'slow' temp) and bake until lightly browned - about 20 minutes.

Cool (or not) before eating. Melted chocolate poured over the top is also very good.

 

restless baker's picture
restless baker

dear gary.turner I think you are talking about white and yellow corn meal. but there is also one other thing, corn flour which is way finer in texture.


dear cgap I guess corn flour is just way finer in texture than white or yellow corn meals, exactly like you said . oh thanks for the recipe, I really didn't know what to do with it this white corn flour, now I have an idea. I will try it asap. I appreciate if you guys know any other recipes you could share it with me.

gary.turner's picture
gary.turner

You said you went for yellow corn meal and I just read that you got white (meal) by mistake. There are damn yankees who use corn flour to make a sweet, cake like corn bread. You might try that. You might also try corn tortillas. It won't taste like proper tortillas made with hominy flour (masa), but probably not bad. More like Fritos, maybe?

gary

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I'm not sure which side of the pond you are on but there is often a lot of confusion on this site about "corn flour".

In America, when you use the term  "cornflour" people are actually referring to a fine, white flour made from just the endosperm (starchy) portion of the corn kernel. It is generally used as a thickener for sauces and pies. It turns translucent when cooked. Occasionally, a small amount  is used in a bread to increase tenderness or cookie recipe to offer crispness. It crisps beautifully in tempura batter. To be more confusing, people in America use the term "cornstarch" is used interchangeably with "cornflour". My belief is that may be because actual flour made from corn is rarely used in recipes here. A more coarsely ground corn meal is the most widely used ground corn used in limited recipes in the south and southwest. Masa Harina is an actual finely ground flour made from hominy corn (soaked in limewater to tenderize the tough outercoat).

In the UK, limited to my experience on this forum, "cornflour" is used to refer to actual, finely ground corn that has a consistency slightly more granular than all-purpose flour and can be either from white or yellow corn. Look here:

http://shop.honeyville.com/white-corn-flour-50lb.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0K7NBRC7ARIsAEaqLRFaHpnJuKChKAx00pYjxQFBQt_YBRU7F3a51jAHuAMx7UG9TBpveFwaAhjeEALw_wcB

 

Honeyville's White Corn Flour is simply corn meal that's been milled even further to a fine flour. Corn flour comes in yellow and white and is generally used in combination with other flours for baked goods. It is milled from the whole kernel, unlike corn starch, which comes from the endosperm of the kernel. White Corn Flour blends well with other food ingredients and reduces gluten strength.

Synopsis:

Corn flour US- Corn starch (Why do we use "corn flour??)

Corn Flour UK- Finely ground corn (white or yellow) (Then what is corn starch called?)

Corn meal- granular ground corn of various sizes. Can be used for mushes, polenta-like dishes, coarse grained cakes,fry coatings, breads(no gluten)

Masa Harina- finely ground hominy corn used mainly for flat breads like tortillas and fry doughs, that I am aware of.

I am sure there are Asian and African corn flours I am not listing but this is the gist.

In regards to recipes:

As a bread additive, corn flour (finely ground  white or yellow corn) is usually an additive to a wheat based bread. Anadama Bread comes to mind most prominently.

I did not find many recipes when I googled "corn flour recipes" but found more when I searched "maize recipes".

So bake some delicious fun!

 

 

 

albacore's picture
albacore

Well, I'm from the UK and I would say that just about everyone in the UK thinks of cornflour as a fine white powder generally used for thickening sauces.

The term corn starch (or is that cornstarch?) doesn't really exist in UK English parlance - and if it did, it would just be a further source of confusion!

 

Lance

cgap's picture
cgap

Corn flour, corn starch, same same.

Tapioca flour/starch.

Potato flour/starch.

Pretty much all interchangeable.

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

at least around here!

Corn Flour (two words), also called Maize Flour (two words), is whole grain corn ground to a fine flour, essentially the equivalent of whole wheat flour.  Cornmeal (one word) is the coarsely ground whole grain corn, essentially the equivalent of rye meal.  Both cornmeal and corn flour can be found in white or yellow, depending on the strain of corn used.

Cornstarch (one word) is the extremely fine white powder that has all of the harder outer parts of the corn kernel removed.  It is used mostly for thickening sauces, or to add a softness to dough (used in small quantities).  It is called cornflour (one word) in the UK, and possibly in Australia and New Zealand as well.

You know, it's honestly amazing that anything manages to be communicated about baking, since even those of us supposedly using the same language aren't dealing with the same definitions of terms.  My deepest sympathies to those trying to translate to their own native language from the mess of English variations...

cgap's picture
cgap

Personally, I blame the Americans for stuffing up the language and making everything confusing.

Not to mention having measurements in lb's and oz's, some antiquated type of measurement I assume. Come to think of it, the British (more commonly referred to as "Poms" in Aussie and NZ) seem to weigh themselves in stones. Do you weigh less if you use a small stone instead of a large one?

Cornflour or corn flour or maize flour or starches or powders...

So lets confuse the issue even further by introducing "Wheaten Cornflour" - here's the link: https://www.gffoodservice.com.au/product/fielders-wheaten-cornflour/

At the end of the proverbial day they are all more or less the same thing - something you can use to thicken a liquid and to bake with and cook with.

And there's another one on page 69 here: http://hbctrading.com.au/wp-content/pdf/ProductCatalogue-new.pdf 

Yep, Purple Corn Powder. I suspect that it isn't such a good superfood as there are a distinct lack of Incas around these days.

Now please, no one start foaming at the mouth about all this.

 

albacore's picture
albacore

Well, I'm a Pom; I do all my baking in metric, but I must admit, I weigh myself in stones and lbs! (One stone = 14lbs)

Also there's not much hope for this thread as it seems that even those in the USA can't agree what cornflour/corn flour is!

 

Lance

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

but I can also buy "cornmeal flour" which is very similar to wheaten cornflour, just a little grainier.  I even have some in the pantry!and it is yellow compared to the white wheaten cornflour.:)

Leslie

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

Leslie

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Corn flour is corn starch. It's white and powdery. It's only real purpose is to thicken up stuff like soup or gravy.

If you want corn flour (flour in the literal sense) then you'll need to get corn meal or polenta (making sure both are "fine" as they'll come in different grades from coarse to fine). They will be yellow.

I've learned the hard way too although it would make far more sense to call the white starchy stuff - corn "starch", and the ground corn - corn "flour", as flour is universally understood as ground grain.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

nut flours?   manioc flour?   (root flours)   Tapioca flour?   

Why don't we call wheat flour  wheat starch?  is there such a flour as pure wheat starch?

I think if corn contained gluten we would be fussier yet about naming flours coming from it.

What I do know about starch anything flour is that one can make a batch of Tangzhong  and use accordingly in recipes.  Corn is pretty neutral.  It can also be used to dust bannetons.  

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

as the ground grain, nut etc... but I don't think in any other case is the word "flour" used to describe just the starch other than when it comes to corn. Can we call, or should we call, corn starch - corn flour? It is very confusing when you think you're buying a flour - used in a specific way - then when you open the packet you've got something else. Makes more sense to me to just call it corn starch and leave the term flour for the actual ground grain.

Very good idea for a tangzhong Mini. As it is the starch within the flour you want when it comes to making one. I think this is the idea in the link for the Borodinsky below where the starch is used as a gloss.

cgap's picture
cgap

I can see the rest less baker sitting in front of their computer reading all this and thinking, while munching on some shortbread, "All I wanted to know was what to do with a packet of something that I accidently bought".

So did anyone try the shortbread recipe?

By the way, Purple Corn Powder isn't much use in baking, although you can get slightly purple coloured shortbread if you chuck a bit in.

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

works well.  Haven't tried this recipe though.  Purple shortbread would be a bit of fun, especial for kids!

Leslie

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)
Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

a great glue for papermache.  Dissolve in about 10x water and slowly bring to a boil.  Best done in the oven if not wanting to watch the pot.  Wall paper paste.  

Get some people ages 5 to 100, some balloons and string, and a pile of old newspapers and magazines.  Save the glossy photos and gift paper for the last layer of paper and stick on at least 3 layers.   Watch the fun.  I dare you not to get your hands in it.  Hang up to dry.  

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

if you are making a cake, about one third constarch to 2/3 AP is a good place to start.  A ratio of one to two.  Try it in your next jelly roll.  This substitution is a great way to lighten up pancakes as well as anything else as it lowers the overall gluten content.  

charbono's picture
charbono

Despite all the discussion, I suspect there are still some people who think corn flour and corn starch are the same thing.  They are not, although they are both finely granulated maize.

 

Corn flour, at least in the U.S., is a product of dry milling.  It typically has 8-9% protein.  It available both whole grain and refined.  It's usually not found in grocery stores, except in the little bags from Bob's Red Mill.  It will make a finer-grained cornbread than the gritty, crumbly cornbread made from the coarser cornmeal.  It will make a superior pancake when made from a genuine flour corn, not a dent corn (although sieving the first break of a dent corn will tolerably isolate the soft endosperm).

 

Corn starch is a product of wet milling, which involves steeping, centrifuging, and washing.  It is well under 1% protein.  It is widely available.  It is a superior thickener to corn flour.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

It is clearly labeled Cornflour (one word) and is written in English and Thai.  Produced by Knorr.  Bagged by Unilever.  No protein information.  Says 100% Corn Flour (two words) and contains Sulphite.  Very fine and pressing the bag feels starchy/crunchy the way starch feels inside a thick plastic bag.

Suggestions for use:  

"Perfect for all the good foods you can cook, as a thickener, as a batter for frying or for marinating meat.

Batter for frying: Mix 3 Tbs Cornflour with 1/2 cup water.  Add one egg yolk.  Dip food in batter and fry.

Marinating: Sprinkle Cornflour on meat and allow time to absorb before cooking.

Keep in a cool dry place and always use a dry spoon."

I got 700g of the stuff....  also purchased ... by accident?   So what is it?  Starch or flour?  (try not to smile)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

https://www.amazon.com/Knorr-Cornflour/dp/B00OAYF0GG

Title "Cornflour"

Description "100% Cornstarch"

:)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Same package and everything!  Thank you.  

The dough mixed up without a snag in the mixer with wire beaters.  Made a crumbly dough that easily pressed together into a uniform dough.  Divided into 4 logs and chilled for the time being.  

cgap's picture
cgap

For Mini Oven, I use a cheese wire to slice the rolls into 5-6mm slices, it gives the biscuits a nice texture on the top, as opposed to cutting it with a knife.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

ideas around in my brain how to go about slicing.  Was also thinking about cutting a window out of half of them and stacking with jam when cool.  

I don't have a cheese cutter here but could rig a hacksaw with thread or dental floss.  (Now doesn't that paint a pretty picture of dental hygiene!)  I got my buttons with a string between them too.  And a sushi knife  -- how about paper thin wafers?  Too fragile perhaps?   I got a rickrack blade!  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I'm mixing up a batch of cgap shortbread with unsalted butter and a generous pinch of salt.  Easy to remember ...  butter and cornstarch are 250g,  white wheat flour and sugar 125g each.  

Edit:  After mixing up the dough and shaping into 4 equal sized round logs and chilling them,  I finally got some time and energy to cut up and bake one of the logs.  I used a sushi knife. (this time) and placed  the cookies close together on parchment in a shiny pan.  140°C  20min bake.  

Very good, an excellent little cookie but very sweet.  For us, closer to candy than a cookie.  putting jam between them would make them too sweet to eat and it was the sweetness that finally stopped us from eating them all.  

They changed very little during the bake so what you shape and see before the bake, stays.   Every nick, bump and bulge.  Could space half an inch apart or one finger between each cookie without any problems.   

We do prefer a less sweet shortbread so I am tempted to reformulate the rest of the dough adding more flour and butter.

cgap's picture
cgap

Come to think of it, when I make shortbread I usually cut back on the "White Death" a bit, as with most things I make.

Mind you, sweet(ish) shortbread isn't that bad...

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

ha ha ha.   now what?  How much do you cut back?  

I could rescue them with a drizzle of dark chocolate....  turn them into little partial eclipse cookies with a partial dunkin'.

I just got a fresh supply of tangy not so sweet concentrated wonderful Apricot jam from Austria.  Did I say wonderful?   It's so lovely and wonderful!  Can't say it enough times.  Wonderful,  wonderful, wonderful!   :)

cgap's picture
cgap

We may allow you to visit Aussie as it seems you can improvise to overcome the lack of a cheese wire.

Dental floss should give a better cut than string I would think. So long as it's not mint flavoured, or maybe it won't matter.

restless baker's picture
restless baker

dear gary.turner , it's all good, don't worry. where I live there are no Yankees ( still their way of baking sounds interesting ) , and the baking industry is very different ( not as developed ) as places like UK or USA.
I wished I could make those tortillas that you said but we don't have Hominay flour ( masa ) in my country, I looked everywhere for it.

dear clazar123, I think you are correct the way I see it, it's like this image



on the left we have cornmeal, and if they grind it fine then we have corn flour which is next one,
and on the bottom, we have cornstarch which is obtained from the endosperm of the kernel.

dear albacore hum ... I suppose flour contains more protein in comparison to starch if you were that white powder and you be left with something like really sticky paste ( gluten ) then maybe that's a flour, but I am not sure, I am not an expert, maybe that test helps to define whats in our hand.

dear cgap i know you have a point and according to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_starch I think you are also correct but it seems like there are too many products out there that, we all have gone confused. I haven't had time to try that shortbread recipe yet but I will. purple corn powder ??? I have never seen such a thing, why it's even purple?

dear IceDemeter too much confusion around this topic but I guess it's getting more clear now that we are talking about it.

dear Lechem , you learned it that hard way ??? how come? by wikipedia standards what you said "call the white starchy stuff - corn "starch", and the ground corn - corn "flour", as flour is universally understood as ground grain" is correct. wikipedia "Flour is a substance, generally a powder, made by grinding raw grains or roots and used to make many different foods."

dear Mini Oven this topic is getting more complicated by each comment ... glue for papermache ??? wow didn't know that, that's awesome, I have to write it down somewhere. so this thing which I think is corn starch could be better for cakes but can I use that cornstarch in any recipes with AP flour? I haven't tried it any sort of white bread because am still trying to get my baguettes right. Lol I can't help it lol, you got a wrong package like me .... here is how it looks for me, it's pretty fine it's like dust and it smells funny ... I don't see any gluten content.
that would be awesome if you could share that shortbread recipe with me.

 here is what I have got looks like :

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I bought what I thought was corn flour but got corn starch. 

If I want corn flour, in the UK, I need to buy corn meal or fine polenta. 

It's just the labelling that's confusing. 

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

and not corn flour, so will be best used in small quantities to:

- "soften" a bread or cake by being mixed in with all-purpose or bread flour to bring down the total gluten (use a small amount - I generally add around 10% or less when using my high protein all purpose flour for a cake)

- thicken a sauce or soup or pudding (it goes clear, unlike flour, so is ideal for making fruit based sauces like fruit pie fillings), with recipes such as these: http://allrecipes.com/recipe/44699/chocolate-cornstarch-pudding/?internalSource=hub%20recipe&referringContentType=search%20results&clickId=cardslot%2020 or http://allrecipes.com/recipe/154297/italian-cream-cheese-and-ricotta-cheesecake/?internalSource=hub%20recipe&referringContentType=search%20results&cli...

The shortbread recipe was posted earlier in the thread here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/387424#comment-387424

You could also do a quick search on allrecipes.com using "cornstarch" for the ingredient search: http://allrecipes.com/search/results/?ingIncl=cornstarch&sort=re

I'm sure that you'll find lots of great ways to use up the package that you've got!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

in a cake recipe.  Here is an example:  With too much gluten, the cake was rubbery and hard.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/128468#comment-128468

clazar123's picture
clazar123

That looks way too fine to be anything but corn starch. Great for pudding or tempura or cookies but only as a portion of the flour in bread or other baked goods. It only adds a starchy gel texture to bread by decreasing the gluten-to-starch ratio in the crumb.

A good analogy regarding cornstarch,gluten and bread is this. Think of blowing bubbles. The ring of the bubble wand is a gluten protein that acts as a framework to hold the edges of the soap bubble.The bubble can then be blown up and filled with air/steam/co2 to aerate the dough. The gluten framework is tough and chewy so the more gluten the chewier the product. The soap bubble is made from the starchy gel provided by the starchy portion of any flour  (corn,wheat,potato,tapioca,etc.). A flour made from a whole grain has a ratio of gluten and starch to produce the proper crumb for the product-bread,cake,pudding,gravy. All purpose flour has less gluten/more starch than bread flour but is engineered to have enough gluten to make an adequate bread (not too chewy or lofty) or an adequate cake (tender enough but not very tender).

Adding starch makes a tenderer/less chewy product but there is a point of diminishing return. Too much starch and you have a gummy texture without enough support to blow bubbles to aerate the dough. More like a pudding or steamed bread.

It is the terminology that is confusing. There is a difference between wheat flour and wheat starch, potato flour and potato starch, tapioca flour and tapioca starch and corn flour and corn starch. Different products that behave differently and are not 100% interchangeable.

Re:Purple corn

It is called Blue Corn and is a genetic variation. Corn comes in all different color-red,blue,golds,oranges and browns. They just are not widely cultivated. The flour is the same color as the corn. However, I suspect the starchy portion is either white or very lightly colored. Just to be accurate. :)

restless baker's picture
restless baker

dear Lechem , it seems like everyone has made the same mistake as I did at least once and have bought wrong product lol.

dear IceDemeter yeap I bet you are right, it seems to be corn starch. thanks for the links, I will look into them. 

dear Mini Oven that high gluten cake seems so ... strange Lol. 

dear clazar123 , what you are saying is that bread flour is more suited for bread because it has more gluten and starch to make a better crust,  and All purpose flour since it has less gluten and starch it could be better for cakes? I think by what you are saying its better not  to use corn starch in my bread and use it mostly for cakes to get a better texture, I don't want my bread to be anything but crunchy and crusty, Wow look at the color of those corns ,that's beautiful and kinda strange, we don't have that in my country, that looks awesome , but the starch is white in all of them right ?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Well, seems to me we have a test here.  Mix some of the floury substance with water and pour onto a medium warm fry pan.  If it turns clear, then it's pure starch.  If it remains cloudy, it's "flour."  

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

another tray of shortbread and they get better with age.  Found the rolled up dough sorting out the refrigerator.  It's a twist on the classic 1,2,3 shortbread... (weights)  one part sugar two parts butter and three parts flour&starch....  

Thanks again,  Mini   :)

cgap's picture
cgap

Good to hear that. How long was it in the fridge?

I have made a couple of batches recently, one with cocoa powder and grated high % chocolate chucked into the mix and another swapping the sugar for malt powder (used in beer brewing) and tapioca flour (it's what it said on the packet) for the corn flour, both batches being a lot less sweet than the original recipe but still very edible.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I did several things with the dough.  First I cut the cold dough and it tended to break up on the edges so let it warm up a little bit before using my string.  I also re-kneaded some of the dough which is called "breaking the dough" and they were nice to shape and eat as well.  At the very end the warm dough was so soft, it pushed thru a decorating tip nicely for a "spritz" effect cookie that held its shape nicely during baking.  

I filled some of the plain looking cookies with apricot jam and served them the next day.  Like the idea of substituting part of the AP with cornstarch.   I've got tapioca flour as well.  :)   

cgap's picture
cgap

I reckon that's what called recipe development.

restless baker's picture
restless baker

I finally did it and used some of that cornstarch, shortbreads, taste good buttery crunchy, smell fantastic ... 

cgap's picture
cgap

Now try it with chocolate.