First time making baguettes (Hamelman poolish recipe) - thoughts for next time?
Hi all - I'm relatively new to bread baking, although have been making bagels and pizza dough for quite some time. I made baguettes for the first time this weekend and, although they turned out all right, I am hoping that folks here have some pointers/etc for what I could change next time.
I used Hamelman's baguettes w/ poolish recipe, although cut in half, and then made 3 16" or so baguettes. I used KA bread flour, and a Kitchenaid Pro 600 mixer.
A few things that I know could be better, but not sure quite how to get there. One is that the dough was still quite sticky after mixing (see attached photo). I mixed on first speed for about 3 minutes, maybe a touch less, and then on second speed for about 4 minutes or a bit more (total of seven minutes in the mixer). It never really came together, as you can see. My poolish, which went for about 14 hrs, may have been a bit overripe? There was a high water mark a bit higher than where the poolish was when I went to do the mix. Not sure if that made a big difference.
I did 2 folds at 40 minute intervals over the course of a 2 hr bulk ferment. Which definitely helped in terms of structure and handling the dough. Pre-shaped, and shaped. My next issue was scoring though. The dough was just too sticky/wet, I think. Or i just didn't have the right confidence or whatever. But I could not get a score at all. Also maybe wasn't cutting deep enough? Not sure.
Aside from the mixing photo, I'm attaching photos here of the loaves once shaped, and then once baked.
All in all I was relatively happy, and the flavor was good, but I'm sure I can do much better! Thanks in advance for any help/thoughts/etc. Excited to be diving in to bread baking!
Welcome to the loaf that looks easy but is the exact opposite and kudos on your first (of probably many). First your dough is really gooey but with KA flour so kong as you hover around 70% hydration you should not be entering the ciabatta zone which appears to be the case here. I hardly ever go with poolish and although hamelman is a master and fawns over poolish I prefer a long cold retard and one reason beyond the personal preference of the flavor, cold dough is much easier to handle than room temperature and that will translate to easier slashing as well. Not may bakers would ne able to slash that dough so you may want to revisit your recipe. Also a good mixing schedule is mote like 8 minutes on slow and preferably 3 on high with a second hydration of 10% reserve water on the second (although with poolish you can just go directly to high). But dont stop at 3 minutes instead make the call to stop once the dough separates from the bottom of the mixer amd that may take up to 6 even 7 minutes especially with king arthur flour. From this point you should have a more managable ball to work with. Maybe you can enlighten is by provoding some measurements - even if that didnt come together, it should nit be that soupy :\
These days (like the last 10 years), I make sourdough breads almost exclusively. But I have made lots of baguettes.
Baguettes sur poolish is the quintessential French baguette. It is worth mastering, if you really like white flour, crusty yeasted breads.
Looking at your dough and reading your description, I gather you did not do an autolyse. I recommend you do one. It will mean you need less mechanical mixing to achieve adequate gluten development. I'm not sure you did so.
On the subject of mixing: Hamelman is writing for the commercial baker who has a large spiral mixer, not a small (by bakery standards) planetary mixer like yours. I have a smaller KitchenAid mixer. I found I needed to double the mixing times Hamelman recommends to get good results. But keep in mind, mechanical mixing at too high a speed for too long will seriously damage the flavor of the final product (due to carotenoid pigment oxidation, if you care). That's why Raymond Calvel "invented" the autolyse. Read about it in Hamelman.
Regarding shaping: Watch the instructional videos on youtube, especially those from King Arthur Flour and from Cyril Hitz. Regarding scoring: Again, there are good youtube videos. (There are also really bad ones, so be selective.) You may also benefit from the scoring tutorial I made for TFL. You can find it here: Scoring Bread: An updated tutorial
Some famous bread baker has been quoted as saying, "The first 10, 000 baguettes are the hardest." Or something to that effect. The shaping and scoring come with (lots of) practice.
One more thing: Looking at your rather matte crust and cuts that didn't open well, I can tell you need more steam in your oven during the first part of the bake.
Lastly, don't forget to have fun!
David
seasoned ranch hands on Isle TFL who are pretty good at baguettes and scoring, including the two gents above this comment. I'll say that I fall into that category too. So...
After you finish absorbing what kendalm and dmsnyder write about, refer to this comment on scoring baguettes and also this one .
alan
Thanks guys for the helpful feedback. Certainly I have a ways to go, but I'm very excited to keep working on it.
A couple things -
1) The Hamelman recipe is a 66% hydration dough, with 33% prefermented flour.
2) I will try retarding in the fridge next time - in the past I've enjoyed the flavor post-retard very much, and it also helps give a bit more flexibility in terms of timing, which is probably the biggest impediment to my baking more loaves more often.
3) This is really a point more for the equipment board - and I have been reading posts there and they are helpful - I will admit to being a bit gun shy with kneading too long in the Kitchenaid Professional (which gets some mixed reviews to be sure). I blew out the motor a couple of years ago (totally my fault), but the repair guy was pretty severe in admonishing me to abide by the guidelines - don't go above speed 2, don't mix for more than 7 minutes total (which was what I did here). He suggested initially mixing with the beater for 4-5 minutes or until the dough starts to come together, and only then switching to the dough hook. Although when I've tried that I'm not sure there was much benefit. Also the timing I used was fairly consistent with what Hamelman suggests for a KA-style stand mixer. (Certainly I understand that recipes/timing are far less important than using my senses and seeing/touching/etc when the dough is ready. But I figured they would be decent guidelines, especially as I develop more of a sense of what I am looking for.)
4) No autolyse - primarily because I was following Hamelman's instructions, and although he includes an autolyse step for many of his doughs, not here. But I will certainly include it next time.
5) The videos are helpful - I have watched a bunch of the King Arthur/Hamelman videos. Although I had trouble finding a good one to walk me through the actual mixing, which maybe seems like the most straightforward. And the scoring tutorial is very helpful. I think the dough was just basically no good for scoring at that point.
6) Re crust/steam - you are right. I preheated the oven with my stone in it for an hour at 460, as well as a 12" cast iron pan on the oven floor. I moistened the oven with a handful of ice cubes in the pan for 5-10 mins prior to the loaves going in, and added about 2 cups of boiling water to the pan right after the loaves went in. I just ordered some lava rocks, which I'll add to the setup next time.
Again, thank you all!! The 10,000 baguettes comment seems about right - so only 9,997 to go . . .
Adam
I have baked this recipe quite a bit when I'm not doing sourdough. Part of the problem is sometimes the bag of flour you have is a little lower on the protein scale than it should be. Hammelman always suggests to adjust the hydration before you have finished mixing. I've found that sometimes an additional tablespoon or two of flour is required. David Snyder's suggestion of doing an autolyse step is a good one. I routinely do this as well. 30 minutes is sufficient. Remember that recipes are suggestions and your own eyes and hands will be able to tell you if things need adjusting or not.
I would add that I bake my baguettes on an perforated aluminum baking tray.
from the Lords of the Baguettes who have already posted here:
Alfanso's video of the Bouabsa double hydration baguette formula created by dmsnyder and janedo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYvORu_oLYc
one of my favourite posts from kendalm here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/386715#comment-386715
As for the Kitchen Aid Pro issue - well, I've got the Pro 600, and honestly very rarely use it for mixing and kneading dough. As a general rule, I prefer doing it by hand. When I do use the mixer, I tend towards using a double flour / double hydration approach, along the lines of the ciabatta technique here: http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=162
I also do no more than half of the amount of dough that the manual says is allowed, and stop the mixer and allow rest periods of 10 to 15 minutes between stages of mixing / kneading. These rest periods make a huge difference in gluten development, as well as taking it easy on the machine!
For the steaming, please use really hot / boiling water to add, and not ice cubes! Creating the steam already drops the internal temperature of your oven quite a bit, and the additional heat needed to change ice to steam (instead of boiling water to steam) just drops the temp even more. Try the Sylvia's Steaming Towels shown in the video, along with boiling water added to either an empty pan or one filled with lava rocks.
Looking forward to seeing your next bake!