The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

A light Rye

  • Pin It
Janedo's picture
Janedo

A light Rye

I don't really know what to call this bread. It is mostly based on the method of Nury's Light Rye. I made that one a couple of times and found it very good, but I wanted a bread with more rye and that had nice big holes but was a bit higher, blown up. I decided to modify the ingredients a bit and then go for a dough that was just slightly more compact. Not a normal bread dough that forms a ball, but not as hydrated. I also proofed it in a banneton for a couple of hours straight out of the fridge. These modifications produced this bread here:

Rye bread

Rye crumbRye crumb

The recipe goes like this (it can be halved. I just like making more of the long recipes):

I made a firm starter with 3/4 white and 1/4 rye (no WW like the Nury's) in order to have at least 200g the next day (I never measure, I admit)

Then, in my mixing bowl 800ml water, 200g T110 rye (medium whole?) and 750g T65 (bread flour?). 30 minute autolyse.  Then 4 tsp good sea salt, 200g starter and mixing. I don't mix until windowpane. Just until it really starts to look nice, but not overly. Now here is the thing... the dough should be well hydrated, but NOT as much as a ciabatta or the Nury's light. It won't form a real ball. In the mixer most of the dough will be ballish but it won't disconnect from the paddle. It still sticks. So flour should be added/or not to produce this.

Put it in an oiled bowl, rest one hour, fold, rest an hour, fold, rise another 2 hours, then in the fridge over night. 

The next day, pull the dough out, mise en couche even though it's cold. After 15 min, form the dough in two bannetons, or more (I once did two small and one big, whatever). Cover and let rise about 2,5 -3 hours depending on the temp. The dough is cold so it needs to come to room temp and then rise a bit so this time is needed.

The trick is, I think, to limit the handling of the dough. It forms lots of bubbles that should stay. So, no kneeding after it comes out of the fridge.

Preheat at 230°C, steam the oven lots, in goes the bread. Turn the oven down to 210°C and the baking depends on the size. 

The whole family is nutty over this bread, even the little ones (2 and 3 yrs).

The first time I made it I wasn't sure weather to score it. The dough is hard to score. It looked like this:

unscored rye

And the one I baked today didn't get folds and didn't have any room temp rise because I had to go out yesterday. It went straight in to the fridge over night (almost 24h). It had HUGE holes. Go figure!

Jane 

Comments

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

I've been thinking of modifing Nury's light rye even though I love it the way it us. Thought maybe I'd add more rye to see what happens. You did a great job and the bread looks terrific. Does it have more rye flavor? Does it leave that great taste in your mouth like Nury's? I'm definetly going to give this a try. I have Nury's ready to bake this morning so your recipe will have to wait a bit. Thanks for your posting, it's beautiful.

 

I don't know how you get the time and energy to bake with your little ones there but you seem to have it all together :)                                                              weavershouse

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Hi Weaverhouse,

The problem is always the same... how do your flours compare to ours? I think this bread has a fantastic taste, you can recognize the sourdough, plus the rye without it being overpowering, so for me it's a perfect everyday bread. It definitely leaves a taste in your mouth! I don't know if I'd add more rye than this amount without the risk of a "daily" bread becoming too "specialty" bread. See what I mean? This remains a great multi-purpose loaf. Of course, that is a question of taste! You said you'd thought of modifying the Nury's rye, so what were you thinking of doing? Just more rye, or the texture as well?

Thanks for the compliment. We have great bread and a messy house... priorities, priorities! :-)

Jane 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Jane.  

You have great bead AND happy children. Those easily justify a messy house. 

I love your experiments. This one certainly looks like a sucess.  

Was the photo of the crumb from your first batch? I take it that the more spherical boule was the one you said had huge holes. If I understand correctly, that was the one where you followed the Nury procedures more closely. Very interesting.

I'd love to try this myself, and I probably won't be able to resist. But I really ought to be concentrating on eating some of my breads from the freezer first. Hmmm ... We did finish the last loaf of Nury's rye late last week. One shouldn't be caught short of Nury's rye. Nooooo.

David

Janedo's picture
Janedo

The second picture is the crumb of the loaves shown at the bottom that weren't scored, my first experiment. The nice, round scored one is the second time I made it "testing" my own recipe (no pics of the crumb, oops!). No pics of today's bake, it got badly cut into while still hot. But all three times are the same recipe (above), so, no, not the Nury's.

Yah, don't get caught without the light rye!!!

The next thing I want to try is the Three River's bread from the book. I have the advantage of the "real" ingredients, almost.

Jane

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Hola Jane,

Love your adaptation of Nury's rye, I am definitely going to try it out here in Spain, we love the taste, but would like a bit more 'poof' to get it higher. Looks like you've really got it sorted out for me :-) Maybe I'll try it with spelt though, what do you think?

By the way, in my experience all the wettish sourdoughs, like Nury's, are very forgiving. I sometimes put mine in the fridge halfway through fermenting, take it out the next day and if the bubbles in the container are still fairly small, do a couple of folds, without the stretching, as to not to disturb the embryo-holes :-) and this delivers a bread with lovely irregular holes as well!

 

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Richelle,

Oh we're neighbors! I'm right by the Spanish border. Everyone goes down there to buy gas.

That is exactly what I find so nice about this bread. The different handling changes the bread very little, never making it worse. I think the real key lies in the long, cold fermentation.

If you use spelt, would you use a light or a dark? With the rye or in its place. I don't think with rye would be worth the expense because I find spelt is rather subtle and would probable just get overpowered. But with dark spelt instead of rye, yes definitely... but still using the white wheat.  I don't know what a 100% spelt (750 white spelt + 200 dark) would do. Probably wirth a try but cutting the recipe in half just in case it backfires! I am planning on doing this procedure with a portion of whole wheat. 

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Hola Jane,

spelt instead of rye... I think, and I'll try it first with the white wheat and just replace the amount of rye by dark spelt - I grind the berries at home, but I also have a bag of white spelt flour that needs to be used up, so I might try half a recipe and make a 100% spelt one as well... will have to wait to the weekend though, but I'll definitely let you know how they came out!

And yes, we're neighbours, although still more than 1000 km apart I think, cause I live in the interior of Andalucía... just a bit too far to drop by for a cup of coffee or to have a snif of each other's kitchen smells...:-)

 

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

I use whole spelt instead of the whole wheat called for and think it's an improvement. I don't think I'd replace the rye with anything because I think rye gives it its great taste. In fact, I'm thinking of upping the rye a little at a time to see what happens.

 

You're right Jane, this is a forgiving recipe...and Oh so good.                                   weavershouse

holds99's picture
holds99

As usual your bread looks terrific.  I think you have a real winner there; crust, crumb and color. Appreciate you posting the recipe.  I am going to try it for my next baking exercise. 

I was having problems scoring too and had tried a variety of cutters and techniques; double edge stainless steel razor blades (in and out of a lame), single edge razor blade, Exacto knife, box cutter, etc. at various angles and none of them made the nice clean, deep cut that I wanted.  Anyway, Eric Hanner suggested buying a Komachi (PureKomachi) serrated tomato knife (about 5 inches long).  So, I ordered one and it works fantastic.  It's very sharp and cuts dough skin like a scalpel.  I have sharpened it once so far, with a couple of strokes across a butcher's steel (like chefs and butchers use to sharpen carbon and stainless steel knives).  The Komachi is not cheap (around U.S. $27-$29 if my memory serves me correctly) but I really like it.  My logic and rationale to justify the expense is...I just won't buy that next cookbook :-)  I got tired of tearing the tops of the loaves and not being able to cut deep enough when scoring, so I ordered one from Amazon on-line.  Comes in its own littel case, which keeps the edge and blade from getting dinged up in the knife drawer.  I think the Komachi's are made of carbon steel but are coated with some kind of special coating to keep them from rusting.  The instructions said not to use an abrasive scrubber on the blade, I assume it will take off the special coating.  Anway, I'll let you know how the Kamachi does on rye dough skin in your recipe, after I make it. 

I thoroughly enjoy reading your well written and informative posts and comments. 

Howard - St. Augustine, FL

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Well, thanks Howard! I ordered the knife (21 euros) plus a "sonde" thermometer and I also found a dough cutter. You just made me spend a fortune! No, just joking. I've been meaning to order the last two things and since I found the knife on Amazon and the other things, too I thought I'd give myself a present. I deserve it, don't I???? Anything to make great bread! Give us some news if you try the rye out.

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Hola Howard and Jane,

Read Howard's comment on the Komachi knife last week I think and immediately put it in my wish list on Amazon.com... did you notice that the entire series in on SALE with a discount of appr. 10 dollar's on every knife in the series?

I almost ordered the complete series, but as the temperatures are rising and my family loves freshly made icecream, I gave preference to the Icemaker appliance for my KitchenAid Artisan... and I found a really old tomato knife hidden at the back of a drawer and it works fine! 

Richelle

 

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I bought the kitchen Aid ice cream accessory last year! It's great. I just posted the recipe for Ben & Jerry's vanilla ice cream with chocolate chip cookie dough on my family cooking blog. Since American ice cream is hard to find here, I just make it and quite frankly it's as good as the real thing! I was going to do chocolate today but don't have any eggs left! What's great about their recipes is that they don't do a cooked custard. It's just mix and chill.

OK, that's off the topic

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Just had a look on your family cooking blog and earmarked the ice cream recipe - it looks delicious! Had seen the Ben&Jerry's recipebook on amazon.uk yesterday and wondered if it was any good! Now I know and I'll definitely include it in our next order.

Shortage of eggs never ever in my kitchen... our chicken lay in abundance and I manage to sell about 5 dozen every week and still have plenty for our own use.

OK, that's even more off topic but it does tell you a bit more about me and my life at a 200 year old farm in Andalucia...

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Definitely buy it! I bought the first one that only costs 6 euros. I think there is more recent one, but didn't bother... yet. Anyway, I think that once you get a good base, the ideas come flowing! I may have to do chickens when the kids are older. Nothing better than fresh fresh eggs.

Are you Spanish or N. American living in Spain?

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Neither Jane, I'm Dutch, living in Andalucía for the past 7 seven years, with a husband and just the one kid (6 jr old son) - I can't begin to imagine how you manage with your troop of kids :-)... I don't write a blog, really wouldn't know where to find the time as I enjoy reading other people's blogs so very much. And even that has to be squeezed in between the work at our farm - lots of animals -, a large organic veggie plot, cooking and baking, processing the produce from the veggie plot and the meat from our animals when we slaughter one and at the bottom of the priority list: keeping the house itself organised and clean (ish). Ah, and as a sidebusiness we have built a little guest house that we rent out to tourists and I bake and sell bread and organic sprouts to a couple of customers in the village who order on a weekly basis.

Again a bit off-topic, but not too long to irritate the other readers I hope:-)

Richelle

holds99's picture
holds99

Richelle, 

Nice to hear what you're doing in Andalucia.  Sounds like you keep very busy with your baking, farm and guest house.  Got to get back over there one of these days.

Howard - St. Augustine, FL

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Thank you Howard for your kind words. Yes, Andalucía is a great place to live. April/may and october/november are the months when nature looks its best over here, lots of flowers in springtime and something like an 'indian summer' in the fall months. Do come visit when you are in the neighbourhood - I'll bake you something nice:-)

Richelle

holds99's picture
holds99

Richelle,

That's a very kind offer.  Thank you.

Howard - St. Augustine, FL

Janedo's picture
Janedo

We're aloud to go off the topic, especially if it is a stimulating subject like life in Spain! :-)

What a shame you are so far away because I am always on the look out for great guest houses and I LOVE farms. I have been trying to convince my husband to do the same thing after he retires from the army in five years. He is a bit sceptical, but I have some ideas forming (one of them being a "ferme pédagogique". We'll see.

I may have lots of kids, but you've got the equivalent of at least ten kids with all that work! A perfectly clean, orderly house should never be a high priority, especially when kids are around. Good food, good "work" and good company is so much more important.

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

just a little bit more off topic :-)

http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentals/accommodations/properties/4313/Villanueva+del+Trabuco/6/Malaga/0/Andalucia/Villanueva+del+Trabuco.html

And remember, we're only a plane-hop away...:-)

Richelle

holds99's picture
holds99

Makes me want to head for the airport.

Howard - St. Augustine, FL

Janedo's picture
Janedo

I can feel the heat! What made you go down to Spain? I'd love to holiday there but I admit I don't think I could LIVE there. The few months of heat we get here are enough for me and we are in the mountains so it is cooler.

Very lovely! What a nice, calm life you have even if there is lots of work.

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

The pictures were taken at the end of August, about the hottest month here. We are in the mountains too, at 700 m, so even in the hottest months - July, August en the first half of September - the nights are heavenly cool and we sleep under a duvet all through the year! I couldn´t bear to live at the coast with its much more humid climate and hot nights. We were first thinking of Panama or Nicaragua, but dedided not to because we felt we would miss the changing of the seasons as we know it and our family, as the distance would really be too far for regular visits.

We decided on the inland of Andalucia as it offers a lovely climate in the summer, although the nighttemperatures in the winter can drop quite a bit below zero, and at the time it was still possible to buy the kind of property we wanted for the funds we had made available. My husband made quite a study of the climate zones, probability of rainfall etc. and so we landed in the high-valley where we ultimately found our dreamhouse as well. Feel very lucky every day still!

Richelle

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Jane, I just refreshed my starter and made double the amount I normally make, so that I will have enough to make both a rye and a spelt version tomorrow... maybe even a 100% version as well, if I feel like making three different doughs tonight. I refreshed my starter with 3/4 AP and 1/4 ww, so that the *experimental*  loaves each have the same, kind of neutral, base.

I´ll try to make and download pictures to post tomorrow!

Richelle

Janedo's picture
Janedo

OK, great! Can't wait to see.

You must have a good time making so much bread and being able to serve it to guests who oooh and ahhhh! I mean, I suppose that you serve it to guests? Did you see Howard's rye? He puts the caraway seeds in it. I love it that way, too, but as I said to him, never do because my family doesn't like them. It makes a more "specialty" bread as well.

I wonder if you do a 100% spelt bread if the dough won't be a bit too slack. Keep an eye on it. I should give a 100% spelt a try as well because I have a bunch of it and haven't used it in a while what with all the other experiments!

Going to go check out your house,

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Hola Jane,

Yes, I do have a good time baking and to be able sell your own concoctions is a wonderful extra and a great way to economically heat the kitchen in the winter:-). The guest house is completely self catering and seperate from the main house, where we live (didn´t appear in the foto´s). Guests can order bread, rolls, pizza and/or buy produce from the organic veggy plot, free range eggs, fresh goatmilk, homemade goatyoghurt, ricotta etc. and of course I freely supply them with samples:-)

Repeat orders are the nicest confirmation that it´s not just my loved ones being nice by saying they like my bread (and gobbling it up before it has a chance to cool properly)...

Yes, I´ve seen Howard´s rye -awesome! I made some kind of Deli-rye a couple of times, but hugely cut down on the caraway seeds. I like the taste, it reminds me of holidays in Germany, but I don´t want them in every single bite. For people who don´t like the taste, but do like a bit of a crunch, I replace them with flax seeds.

I´ll keep a close eye on the 100% spelt dough - thanks for the warning!

Till tomorrow!

Richelle

Richelle's picture
Richelle

progress report: the three doughs are fermenting now.

one as per your recipe (only with whole rye from my mill), one with spelt (again: whole from the mill)  in place of rye and one 100% spelt (replaced the white bread flour by white spelt). I only had to add like 1 tbs of flour to reach the consistency of the dough as you describe it. It almost cleared the walls of the mixer (the 100% spelt one did... spelt absorbs just a little bit more liquid I think) and sort of clung to the dough hook. Very shiny doughs, nice gluten forming, the spelt ones especially of course.

Will do a couple of S&F's and then put them overnight in the fridge... out now to do some weeding!

Richelle

Janedo's picture
Janedo

OK, great!

When you said you were doing 100% spelt, you mean the white proportion with white spelt and the rye with whole spelt?

I sort of assume that in Europe we have a greater spelt culture. Easily accessible, not overly expensive. Do you know what Petit Epeautre is? Since, I think you speak French, maybe you know what it is in English. It isn't spelt even though there is the word Epeautre.

I haven't launched this experiment yet because I am a bit submerged in household activities and kids. The baguettes were my limit! Next week for sure.

Can't wait to see your results,

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

caused our wireless network to go down, which means I can´t download the pictures just now... I can give you the votes of the ´jury´ though :-). We like the 100% spelt variety (100 gr. whole spelt, 375gr white spelt) best!! Second comes the rye (100gr whole rye, 375 gr white bread flour) end third the 100 gr whole spelt/375 gr white bread flour variety.

I baked them all differently, as I noticed when handling the first dough when it came out of the fridge, that it didn´t firm up as much as I hoped and I didn´t want to end up with three free shape flying saucer kind of breads.

The first one I baked, I proofed in a banetton but it spread enormously on the bakingsheet... it did indeed turn out to be a flying saucer (the part spelt one), but has lovely large wholes and the aftertaste of this one was the most sour of all.

The rye dough I split in two and let proof in some sort of mini-paella pans, baked them in the pans.... medium ovenspring, a bit less open crum, but still very light and airy. We really liked this one.

The 100% spelt dough I decided to proof in a banetton, but bake in a preheated Dutch oven (a really heavy cast-iron pan). Great ovenspring, as was my intention, lovely rustic crust (couldn´t slash it of course, but it burst open just a bit) and moist crumb, but not sticky. I let this one cool  in the oven after baking. This is our favorite!

I can´t wait to have another try at this recipe, as I am determined to make a free-standing loaf that at least resembles your picture, Jane! I know I have to add more flour or skip some of the water.... I am a bit afraid to loose the lovely bubbles in the dough though:-)

Next weekend perhaps!

Richelle

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Thanks for the results. I'd love to see the pics when you have them.

That's what I found with this technique, just a little too much or too little water changes everything!

I'm definitely going to try the 100% one as soon as I can. I'm a bit over-booked these days and I even feel a bit tired and ill today. I think it's burnout!

But, I'll let you know as soon as I do it. In the mean-time you can also write me on my personal e-mail through my blog.

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

I finally succeeded in making a free standing round loaf of sourdough!!

Jane, I followed your recipe, halved the amount of rye flour though, as I use wholegrain and in the first attempt it turned out quite dark. I added a little bit of gluten, less than a teaspoon and a pinch of yeast as I refreshed my starter quite late in the day and couldn´t wait for it to peak. Just to help it along a bit :-)

Added quite a bit of AP flour to get the right consistency, I think 6 tbs in total. The dough was in turnesometimes clinging to the hook and sometimes flung to the sides of the bowl... does this sound familiar? I put it in the fridge straight away, took it out this morning and after 1 hr, 2hr and 3 hrs did a S&F... did a final shaping, sort of fold-roll-up, turned it good side up and formed a boule of sorts creating surface tension, but without inflating the dough. Placed on bakingpaper on sheetpan, covered by an old emaille pan, sprayed the interior with water first and into a very hot oven, 250 C. Took the pan off after 20 minutes and it had risen beautifully, the skin had formed ears and it was beginning to brown. Turned the oven down to 200 (is a gas oven with unglazed tiles, so takes a while to cool) and left it in for another 15 minutes and after temping it another 10 on a rack (?) (cause the bottom was quite brown already) with the oven turned off.

This has turned out my most beautiful loaf ever, and the taste is amazing. Just had a slice with chorizo.... mjmmm. The crust is really thin and crackling (the bread ´talked´ for more than 10 minutes when I took it out of the oven) and the bottom is a bit thicker, but very nice as well.

Made pics of course, but my laptop is still without network, so be patient please!

Thanks again for sharing your recipe, Jane!

Richelle

Janedo's picture
Janedo

That's great! I think it is one of life's most wonderful pleasured.. admiring and tasting a loaf of bread that YOU yourself made. Can't wait to see pictures!

You made me laugh a bit when you said Thanks for the recipe, because really you did the same thing I did, that is, you took a recipe and changed it and made it your own. That is also what is wonderful about bread baking. There are no strict formulas and rules. Each baker must adapt to their ingredients, environment and of course and maybe most important TASTE.

Have a nice weekend... eating your great bread!

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

okay, laptop and network are functioning again so I'll try to upload the pics I took on take I and take II.

Take I:, the kick-off

take I, the kick-off

Richelle's picture
Richelle

dough going strong!

 going strong

results; flatbread

 flatbread

medium rise

 medium rise

okay rise, baked in Dutch oven

 okay rise

Take II:

the loaf:

 the loaf

the crumb

 the crumb

I''m no expert fotographer, didn't use any additional lighting, so I hope you can get an idea...

My starter is bubbling, time to set up another Janedo-rye!!

 Richelle

Janedo's picture
Janedo

Thanks for the pics. That last one looks delicious! I've been wondering what you've been up to. Over here, very busy and not much computer time. Having loads of fun with Hamelman's "Bread".

I continue to make this light rye regularly because it is just so good. I've made it with some T110 (semi-whole wheat) like you, which is nice. I also made a 100% spelt like I told you I would BUT I lost my notes on it. It had whole, cooked spelt grains and I baked it in a bread pan. The dough was pretty hydrated, the bread was delicious. Wanted to blog it, but obviously couldn't!

The latest great bread is the miche Pointe-à-Callière, speaking of semi-whole wheat. If you like this light rye, you'll like that, too. I ust have to find the time to blog it. It's gorgeous and huge. I cut of about four pieces to share with people.

Lots of visitors these days down South? Here it is crazy!

Jane 

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Hi Jane, good to hear from you. I've sent you a couple of emails through your family blog with pics of the farm etc. but don't know if you received those okay.

I've been experimenting a bit with 'old dough' breads this last week and the latest example is in the oven right now. I infused this one with quite a large amount of week-old fridge starter and I just hope it won't be overly sour. Hate to throw good food away though.

In my KA next to me a new batch of Janedo-rye :-), but with a semi integral soy flour instead of rye. It has quite a bit of biggish soy bean pieces in it and these will soak up some liquid from the dough while it is in the fridge, which helps the dough to be more shapable tomorrow morning. I buy this flourmix at our local bakery, probably not organic at all, but it has a lovely smell. 100 gr of this, 100gr of white spelt and the rest AP. I've stuck to the method of baking the sourdoughs covered by an old email pan and this gets me a lovely superthin crackling crust that we love.

Hope you will find the time soon to share the miche Pointe-à-Callière, can't wait to try it. I try to limit baking activities to very early morning or late at night, as it really heats the kitchen up too much for comfort... and we haven't even entered the really hot summerweeks yet! Will try your tip about the whole cooked spelt soon as well.

Not a lot of visitors here, but we're expecting guest for the guesthouse next monday for a week's stay and early august it's booked for another week. A small chance that my sister and her kids come over for a week or so later this month, but nothing booked yet. My son is going to summer school and daily swimming classes... taking him there and back really breaks up our mornings, but hey, he loves it!

Good luck with the visitors, house guests and of course, baking!

Richelle

Richelle's picture
Richelle

Forgot to tell you that I've made the B&J receipe for icecream lots of times already, adding different tastes at the end, like lemon curd (without butter), strawberry marmelade, leftover chocolate cake batter (delicious!), mint sirup with chocolate chips etc.

I replace half of the cream and half of the milk by very thick homemade goat's yoghurt and this gets me a really creamy mixture.

Ah, and "Bread" is on my Amazon wishlist.... maybe sometime next week we'll decide what we really want to order...

 Richelle