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Bulk fermentation sourdough in the Fridge ?

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Bulk fermentation sourdough in the Fridge ?

HI Fresh Loafers

 

I have a question about bulk fermentation and sourdough.

I have been making ciabatta ( with instant yeast ) mixing in the evening and letting it ferment in the fridge overnight, then dividing in the morning and baking. Its been turning out great. Now , is it possible do the same process with a 75% hydration sourdough ? ( the Tartine country loaf recipe ) So not dividing and shaping the loaves and letting each loaf ferment in the fridge overnight, but letting the whole mixture ferment in the fridge and then dividing/shaping and baking in the morning. 

I want to do this for the following reason.  Space. I dont have enough space in the fridge to store more than 4 baskets with dough thats fermenting. I work during the day so my baking schedule is from 6pm to 7am. I get up and take the dough out of the fridge at 5am, turn on the oven and put the loaves in the oven at 6am. So will the hour from 5am-6am be enough time to divide and shape the sourdough. Wondering about the secondary ferment/rest for the dough.

So, if anyone can understand what I’m trying to ask, please send me your thoughts.

 

thanks

Warren

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

But I'd develop the gluten and give it some room temp time before refrigerating. The biggest issue is the final proofing. One hour won't be enough. To get around this you would have to retard the dough at the final proofing stage but then you'd need to do the full bulk ferment at room temperature also not getting around that problem. 

Might be worth dropping the amount of levain enough to do a long bulk ferment through the night at room temperature then shape and final proof for an hour or so. Or increasing the amount of levain to shorten the bulk ferment the night before so you can shape and final proof in the fridge ready for baking the next morning.  

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks Lechem

I am using  20% starter. My room temp is about 19 degrees celsius / 66 F. So if I halved the starter amount to 100g and left the bulk ferment overnight from 6pm -5am ( 11 hours  ) do you think that it would be okay ? Would it over ferment ? Whats the correct temp for a long ferment ? 10 C / 50 F ? 

Thanks

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

But I'd drop it to 5% at a rough guess. If you want to do 10% then I'd do closer to 6-8 hours. 

Get in some stretch and folds with rests in between. 

See how well its done in the morning and adjust if need be the next time.  

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thank you.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Well, that's pretty much exactly the advice I would give, so no need to repeat. I almost always bulk ferment my sourdoughs in the fridge (after 3 to 5 hours at room temperature, with a few stretch and folds) and they are beautiful in the morning. However, pre-shaping, shaping and proofing takes at least two hours in the morning, sometimes more. So the overnight room temperature bulk with a lower percentage of starter will probably meet your needs better.

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Almost all my doughs (whether made with pre-doughs or with S&F) are bulk-fermented in the fridge. I don't reduce the starter, only the amount of additional yeast (if using). But you do need to remove the dough from the fridge 2 hours before using, to de-chill. Only for small pieces like rolls or pitas it doesn't matter since they warm up much faster.

Karin

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI Everyone

So here is an update on the bake.

I mixed the dough using a 10% starter, 200g for 2kg flour( I thought that the starter could have been stronger so didnt opt for the 5% Lechem suggested ) . Did the autolyse 30mins and then added the extra water and salt. Then from about 6pm till 10:30 I did stretch and folds every 30mins. I covered the bowl and went to bed. Woke up at 5am and the dough had at least doubled and risen to the top of the bowl. The room temp was 20 C at that time.

The dough was tacky when i divided it but had a decent stretch for the the pre shaping. Bench rest for 10mins and then went on to shaping into batards. I let them rest for 1 hour. Baked at 220C for 15mins with steam, then down to 200 C for 15mins.

And the results were pretty good. Oven spring was great and the "ears" really pronounced. good colour too. I wanted to post a picture but cant figure out how to attach an image.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Good judgement and you read your starter well.

Follow the instructions when clicking on the tree box to attach a photo. Or post a link to a photo.

Would love to see the results. 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI 

I still cant figure out how to attach the images, maybe because i use a Mac, anyway heres a link to my instagram page.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWPFYdDACk4/?taken-by=itsbread365

Thanks

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Lovely looking loaves. And I can imagine the flavour due to the long ferment overnight. Good call on the starter amount.  

Bon Appetit

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks Lechem

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Those look quite lovely! How is/was the crumb? You happy with these ones?

Question - when you say 10% starter, do you mean the starter weight was 10% of the dough flour weight (e.g. 100 grams of starter to 1000 grams of dough flour), or that the weight of the fermented flour (the flour in the starter) was 10% of the total flour weight (dough flour and starter flour; so 100 grams of flour in the starter and 900 grams of flour in the dough)?

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

HI LL

 

I should have waited for the loaf to cool properly, but couldn't so when i cut it open it was still a bit too moist. But if i had waited i reckon the water would have been absorbed more, but generally i was happy with the out come. 

The 10% was of the total flour weight - 2000g flour / 200g starter. Usually I use 20% starter to total flour weight.

cheers

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Lechem, when you say 5 or 10% ratio of starter to flour, I assumed you meant the flour in the levain. Not the total amount of flour.

Is this correct?

By-the-way; oo7 wazzy's bread looks great!

Dan

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Reading through the comments. Ah yes! I remember this.

5-10% starter to flour. Not flour within the starter.

Warren was looking for a long overnight bulk ferment at room temperature. It was all a matter of working out a schedule to fit in with his day. So if doing a long bulk ferment at room temperature then dropping the starter was an option.

We didn't touch on the levain build as we were taking into account a mature 100% hydration starter.

Hope this helps Dan.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

But normally, wouldn't the levain be made with 10% starter to the weight of the flour in the Levain only?

So, if the Levian was made with 100% hydration starter, I'm thinking 10 grams starter, 100 grams flour, and 100 grams water. Even if the total flour in the recipe was much more.

I originally made the recipe using 10% of the total flour weight and I think that was way to much.

How about this?

10% starter of the flour in the Levain. And then use 10% of the mature Levain of the total flour in the recipe. Does this work for both long fermenting of the Levain and also the Bulk Proof?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

For starter % in the levain and levain % in the final dough. Both % are worked out for timing and flavour. Warren was following a recipe which didn't fit his schedule so we tweaked the recipe to make it work for him. 

If you're following a recipe which asks for 10% starter to the flour within the levain this is done with the final loaf in mind re: flavour and the timing for the recipe will be worked out accordingly taking into account how long it'll take to mature. 

Obviously with both the levain build and final dough the more the starter or levain to fresh flour the quicker it'll take to ferment and vice versa not taking an alteration of temperature into account i.e. refrigeration 

If you're following a recipe that asks for 10% starter to fresh flour within the levain this is the reason. Should you not wish to use all the levain and drop the % that goes into the final dough then by all means build the levain to that proportion but build up instead of building extra and only using a fraction of it. 

Just because you've used 10% starter in a levain build it does not mean that the levain itself should be 10% of the flour in the final dough. It depends on the bread you wish to make. Flavour and timing. 

oo7wazzy's picture
oo7wazzy

Thanks Dan. I am happy with the recent outcomes but its still trial and error with the timing and starter ratios vs temps. I am realising that everyday is indeed different due to the temperature on the day and how you have to control the ferment using the right ratios. Its a lot of faith in your decision , especially when you mix the dough and then leave it overnight. You just dont know what you are going to wake up to find ;)