Tartine Bakery's bread so sour
So after weeks of baking breads using the Tartine book as my guide, I finally visited Tartine bakery & took home a country loaf + a porridge ancient grain loaf. I expected to taste the best bread I'd ever had but alas, the country loaf was a MASSIVE disappointment -- so sour. In fact, unless I only eat the crust, sour is the overwhelmingly dominant flavor of this bread & lingers in your mouth for minutes afterward. In my opinion, a very typical San Fran sourdough in terms of flavor. I was quite taken by surprise as in his book, Robertson continually talks about how he dislikes an overly sour bread & how easy sour is & he instead prefers a fresher starter with sweet, floral notes. Didn't taste any of that in his bread yesterday (or this morning).
My own bread, made using his recipe, has nowhere near the same level of sourness (starter fed once per day, 3-4 hour bulk ferment @ 78-80 deg & overnight fridge retard). The 1st day, sour is a faint background note but develops a more sour flavor 2nd day and beyond. Sacrilegious as it sounds, I prefer my bread. My wife agreed & said it's a good thing I started baking his bread before I tasted it because I wouldn't have been motivated to use his book if I had.
The porridge loaf was much better as at least that one starts off with a savory flavor before the sour rushes in & takes over. Still, I have to eat it with butter to balance out the sourness (& I usually don't eat bread with butter, equating it with drowning sushi in soy sauce + wasabi).
Anyway, just wondering if anyone else has eaten Tartine's bread & could share their thoughts. I guess the book's been out for some time & possibly he's changed tack on flavor but has it always been this sour? Am I just an ignorant bread consumer, the equivalent of some guy who prefers McDonald's over French Laundry?
I have not had a chance to taste Tartine bread so can't help you there. But like a lot of people I consider sour bread a fermentation mistake unless you are actively trying to achieve that. Everyone has their own tastes and as long as you are using quality ingredients and proper technique I would continue doing what you want.
Stu
I tried a country loaf from Tartine bakery about two years ago and it wasn't particularly sour, certainly not as sour as you describe. It's possible things have changed during those two years.
You're right about typical old-school San Francisco sourdoughs. They were quite sour and a lot of people liked and bought them; of course not everyone likes the strong sourness. La Brea bakery makes a sourdough which lacks any discernable sourness at all, in fact IMO it is quite bland.
It's worth the ride on the 24 bus to Josey Baker's. They tell you up front that it's not supposed to be like the old-school breads and it isn't, but it's a very good naturally-leavened whole-wheat bread. I forget the exact name of it.
(MINUTES LATER) The Josey Baker bread I like is called "Wonder Bread".
made instead of that fluffy white bread.
...which lacks any discernable sourness at all.
It must be very different to the one being sold in the UK under that name. That made me pucker.
Funny! I find Tartine's bread to be uber sweet, with a hint of sour. Anyways, if you don't love the fermented flavor (which I find sweet), I'd urge you to go over to The Mill, their country loaf (wonder bread, as mentioned before, is just the country loaf thrown in a loaf pan) is really great.
As I mentioned before, I can't help but wonder if it's me. I didn't register sweet at all. Maybe living with a 3 year old has thrown off what sweet actually tastes like ...
Thanks for the tip on the Mill, will check it out next I'm in SF.
I just got back from a trip to Tahoe and a friend very kindly picked up 3 loaves of Tartine bread for me to try (and for us to eat fit breakfasts and dinners) and I was shockingly underwhelmed too. The bread was gently sour at first bite but then there was an epic kicker of (to me) unpleasant sourness that went on to linger. I too was surprised because of how Robertson mentions disliking sourness and preferring sweetness in his sourdoughs. The only time I got anything similar was when I made his baguette recipe but left a couple of loaves for about 3x the fp time.
Not sure of the issue lays with my unrefined palate either, I did think I quite appreciated sour sourdoughs though (but my preference definitely tends towards sweet) so who knows. In a way I'm relieved that I prefer the bread I've been baking - at least this way I have access to what I prefer -- anyway just wanted to chime in and let you know youre not alone in being disappointed haha. Did you ever manage to check The Mill out?
Sorry for late reply ... I'm usually too busy searching this site for troubleshooting tips to participate much!
Upon further reflection, I think calling the bread sour was too imprecise. For sure, the overwhelming flavor was the ferment but it wasn't necessarily a vinegar-type flavor. I've been describing it as a (overly) perfumed loaf.
I have been to The Mill. The black pepper parmesan was a dreamy loaf, one of the best I've ever had but the whole wheat pan loaf was a disaster that day. Totally gummy/gooey inside, even after I rebaked it an hour at home. Obviously something went wrong there but I'm sure we've all had thise bad days, like Dan Barber getting fired by Nancy Silverton.
Just hit Ponsford's Place today ... NorCal is like the epicenter for artisanal bakeries & I've been to most: Tartine, Dave Miller, Della Frattoria, Wildflour by Bodega, Ponsford, Acme. Some amazing loaves but I'm starting to think bread is truly a local product as I prefer mine. Perhaps that's part of the beauty.
I also don't really like the American version of sourdough; too sour for me. I call most of my naturally leavened breads "Something-or-other Levain" for that reason, explaining to people that they are more European or French-style 'sourdoughs'. For a lot of good information on this, see Daniel Leader's book "Local Breads", where he discovered how French, Italian and other traditional European bakers use natural leavening without having a sour taste to their bread.
sour taste with a tang to boot. Sine people do not like sour bread, Chad's methods are what they are to make the least sour bread possible. When ever I follow them at home I get what I tasted at his bakery some years ago and what others seem to get at home too, It isn't the kind of SD bread I like so we do things to bring up the sour so it really isn't Tartine bread or method at all when Lucy gets done with it,
I can only think that Chad has change his recipe, method, flour etc for hos bread to be more sour. Sound like SFSD in late 60's and early 70's when it was much more sour for sure.