May 25, 2017 - 10:20pm
rye beer bread
I would like to make my husband a beer bread (stout) with rye. Anyone have a great recipe? I don't have a started yet. I live in the north so we don't have fancy items at home.
Anyone willing to share?
Thanks !
Share
yeasted?
EDIT... silly me, you said you don't have a starter yet. If you can get hold of kefir or live beer then you can make a starter quite quickly.
where do i get live beer and a recipe for the starter? Can i just ask the brewery in town for live beer?
and you can ask them for some barm then you have your starter right there. You can make barm bread.
If not, then some bottled beers have live yeasts in them and you can cultivate a starter from that. You just have to do a bit more research as to which ones are still live.
The culture in kefir is very close to the cultures in a sourdough starter. If you can buy some good quality kefir then you can make a preferment with that and treat like a sourdough.
If no to all of the above then it'll have to be a yeasted bread and see clazar123 (below) for some ideas. I suppose getting yourself a nice rye recipe and replacing the water with beer will work well for what you're looking for.
First of all, if you just type "rye" into the search box or even "rye,beer", you will get a LOT of posts. Take a look through them to see if you can find what you have in mind.
I wasn't clear if you wanted a rye beer bread that is like a quick bread with baking powder or a yeast based sandwich bread or a really dense pumpernickel suitable for a schmear of cream cheese. Tell us a bit more.
Have you made rye bread before? Rye is an interesting dough to handle-very sticky- especially a high percentage rye dough. It behaves totally differently than wheat dough.Even a mix of wheat and rye can behave a lot differently than just wheat. Mini Oven is a regular contributor here and has posted a lot on starters and rye.
I just looked at your profile and you are NORTH! I think your biggest challenge will be keeping the dough warm enough to rise. If you have electricity and an oven/microwave with a lightbulb, you should be ok.
Have fun!
Beer hydrated rye from the master of rye:
http://theryebaker.com/swedish-beer-limpavortlimpa/
Hearty,dense rye but no beer:
http://theryebaker.com/wholegrain-buttermilk-ryevollkorn-roggenbrot-mit-buttermilch-germany/
im looking for a yeast based bread sandwich or pumpernickel like. i have never made rye before but looking forward to working with it.
I need to work on a proofing box .. i found this and want to try it. I used to use the lights on top of my oven to bring heat but now my husband switched to LED and they don't generate heat :(. I will look at mini Oven thanks.
Thanks for the recipes!
Brod and Taylor are Fresh Loaf posters that actually beta tested their proofing box with a few lucky Fresh Loafers. It is a bit costly but it does fold up nicely and it really works. It was cheaper at KingArthur flour co. than amazon:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/items/bread-proofer
I would try the Limpa bread recipe first.Leave out the raisins, if they don't fit what you are looking for.
Just sub. beer for water:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11226/made-another-loaf-russian-black-sandwich-bread
Beer used to fed starter! Check out her blog,also:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/43703/potato-ale-bread-made-boozy-mashfed-starter
Karins recipes are great:
http://hanseata.blogspot.com/2012/08/dan-lepards-alehouse-rolls.html
Developing a starter from kefir or beer are another whole learning curve.
where would i go to get info on developing a starter from beer... ?
Thanks !
Dan lepard also has great spelt and ale/porter bread @ https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2007/nov/24/foodanddrink.baking13
So... i got live beer from the brewery tonight and i have 3 containers going... my house is cold... 15 so i put a heating fan and it started a little bit... i put them in the over for the night (not on, just with boiling water) and hopefully they will be bigger tomorrow !
I found a few recipes. Thanks for the help.
the brewery guy was really excited for my project and i really hope that it pans out. Im a little dissapointed that it is not going as fast as the lady's post.. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/45960/real-barm-bread
but who knows.. i really want this to work :)
Barm is the frothy bit and has concentrated yeast in it. Live beer will have yeast in it but not as much as barm. If it takes longer to get going then don't worry as it's quite normal. Keep warm and wait. Once it grows and peaks then it's ready to use.
its live beer. It peaked overnight and fell. I fed half and making bread with the other (i don't know if its going to work? should i have fed it a couple more times?) Im sorry for all the questions I'm new to this.
Can i keep the live beer starter like a sourdough or do i have start over again each time. Do you think it will have a different taste than regular yeast?
I've never kept one going. Only used live beer to activate a starter. What you can do is try and keep one like a sourdough starter and build a Pre-Ferment each time. If the Pre-Ferment goes well then it should be fine. If not then abandon the recipe and create a new starter from a fresh batch of barm/live beer.
As for taste... Well I'm looking forward to hearing your impressions. It's very satisfying doing it this way either way.
so i kept 2 and will see even if they grow or not :) as well for taste ill let you know what my husband thinks. If it was successful i was going to make some for the brewer.
i wonder if commercial brewer (the one i have here) even have froth or are they all contained in the big cylinder things? I think ill ask Bob... If he does maybe i should mix the froth and the live beer and see how that goes... hummm
FWIW, I'm doing some experiments with a local microbrewery, using their yeasts (directly from the fermenters) to make some test loaves... So far so good. The main issue is the bittering hops in the brew which may impart off-flavours, but so-far we're not tasting anything untoward. I let it settle, then pour off as much of the wort as possible leaving the yeasty beasties as a sludge in the bottom. (this is lager we're brewing, so the yeast settles to the bottom in the fridge quite nicely) Right now it's acting a bit slower than standard wet bread yeast, but that's no bad thing. The loaves have been very good. I'll probably write more later with photos, etc. as its still early days yet.
In days gone by (in the UK), bakers would get a bucket of barm from the brewer and keep it going (until it went sour!) by feeding it sterilised wort that they'd make themselves. Typical bread making would involve taking a portion of their fermenting wort, mixing it with flour and water to make a sponge, let that go overnight, then use the sponge to ferment the dough...
-Gordon
thanks for the info.. I'm very interested in your progress.. can you let me know when you post pictures and more info about it. Right now, there is a little bit of bubbles in the starter (live beer barm from yesterday) it has not grown yet. I just started the heat as well when i came back (we were gone and heating fan is not trustworthy not to catch on fire). My husband will be making a proofing light switch thing in the oven later. So I'm just waiting. If any of my terms are not correct it might be so.. please feel free to correct me :)
I'm not making a starter - just using the yeast slurry directly, although I'm using the "sponge & dough" method, so I guess the sponge is a bit of a starter, but my aim is to get to the point where I can use it the same way I use normal live bakery yeast.
-Gordon
the sponge a starter or atleast like a Levain which is an off shoot starter but I suppose it's also a kind of Poolish. Which brings me to my next point as the history of Poolish isn't actually french/polish as the British were making Pre-Ferment sponges with barm and flour long before the so called Poolish.
i understand thanks
Making a beer (or cider) bread isn't hard - just substitute beer/lager/cider for the liquid you'd normally use (ie. water) and carry on with yeast or a natural levian, as usual. There's no great secret to it - sometimes you get a good combination, sometimes not so good. I make a bread with a local cider[1] which is really nice - intense appley taste to it when cut open - however it's expensive - same for beer breads.
If you want something with a little bit of rye in it - for sandwiches, then I'd suggest looking at some of the "Deli Rye" recipes, but any ordinary wheat recipe with up to 20% rye in it will work - one I make regularly would have 350g white wheat flour in it, 200g light rye (type 997, not 'white' rye), and 50g stoneground wholemeal wheat. Add to that 7g dried yeast, 8g salt, a pinch of caraway seeds and up to 330g liquid (so a 330lm bottle of something) and see how you get on. Mix, leave 30 minutes, light knead, leave an hour, shape into a tin/banneton, rise, bake (250°C for 12 minutes, down to 210 for 20-30 minutes)
-Gordon
[1]Cider for the benefit of the left-pondians; in the UK means stuff with alcohol in it. What you call "hard cider".
thank you for your reply i will try it !
(just deleting a duplicate post - not sure how that happened!)
A few degrees really matters to yeast.65-little activity. 70-some activity. 75 -active. 80-crazy active.
A proofing box made a huge difference when I wintered in Wisconsin so it must make an even larger impact for you. We intentionally kept our house about 60-65 and layered up. Cheap bastards. Oh, wait- we were frugal and conserving our world's resources. Nah. Cheap. Conserving my resources. All the same in the end. It doesn't have to be elaborate or expensive. A heating pad with a box over it works,too.
Proofing box ideas:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8952/temperature-controlled-proofing-box-made-cheap
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19536/home-made-proof-boxhttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/31997/simple-baker-trick-proofing-box
so i've been full of bread all weekend experimenting. It was amazing. i want to do so much more !
so i made a loaf with the first batch. it rose well during its 1st and 2nd rise but in the oven it did not.. so I have a slightly elevated disk about 3 inches or so...but while i was going that i got an epiphany. So i put it together and it rose and fell in like 2 hours !!! I wonder if this started is stronger than the first ones.
i made a beer oat bread and i am waiting for my husband to try them. i almost want to just throw the first bread out..
I think you've got bread fever. Kind of like gold fever but with bread! Have fun.
As for the first loaf-toast,croutons or French toast. If it's really be, fish bait or bird food. Keep pigs? They would love it!
so we tried the the bread... it wasn't bad.... a little heavy but not that bad... so i proofed bread over night and when i woke up they looked like big thick cookies. Is this over proofing. are they salvageable ? I did 2 stretch and folds and baked it. ... I think it will be heavy. im getting frustrated with all my mistakes. :(
Sometimes the only difference between making bread and making GOOD bread is how much patience is used as an ingredient. Patience and thoughtfulness.
Patience:
-to mix and wait
-to pay attention
-to let a warm, fragrant loaf sit without devouring it
-to try again after a "failure"...and again and again and again.
Thoughfulness:
-to make it a learning process by actually keeping notes and learning something from each bake.
You can master it if you don't take notes and ask questions but it takes a lot longer. Also, many bakers that make wonderful bread have no clue as to WHY a loaf turns out.
A personal anecdote:
My mother made wonderful biscuits that were so light and airy they would float off the plate and melt in your mouth. BUT-she could not teach me to make them. Side by side we would make biscuits and I would follow her direction. Mine were rocks and hers were clouds. She was totally puzzled. I did my best to imitate her-and we were side-by-side in the same kitchen, same ingredients, same oven. It took me years to figure out why I made rocks. Mainly it was hot hands and younger,stronger hands. I worked the dough briefly, like she did, but too aggressively. That knowing only came after many bakes and a good understanding of what was happening with the ingredients and process.
So-try again.....and again, with patience and questions. Did I mention bread crumbs,croutons and French toast?
You'll get there! TFL helps a lot to speed the learning curve.
is it possible for my loaf not to rise while proofing? even though I had a good active starter?
thanks
A pic of the loaf and a pic of the crumb would be very helpful.
Overproofing and underproofing can look similar-both can produce dense crumb and short loaves. A non-rising loaf from dead or overworked yeast will also be dense and short.
To understand why, think about what is happening. As a dough ferments, gas bubbles are captured and grow and the gluten structure ages. If you watch a dough go thru a complete cycle from rise to dead, it will rise and rise and finally collapse. As it continues to age, water is released from the decaying gluten bonds and it becomes a watery puddle. What a mess. If you catch the loaf when it is still domed but the gluten has weakened but not yet collapsed, the heat of the oven will cause the loaf to collapse just by the start of oven spring. It looked ok but wasn't. The resulting loaf will be dense as the weak gluten strands collapse and the space is lost.Sometimes large,irregular holes can form as the gluten strands age at different rates and bubbles consolidate.
Underproofing causes a dense crumb because the bubbles never formed, partially formed or only a few bubbles had an opportunity to form. When you bake an underproofed loaf, the top bubbles may have a little oven spring,depending on how much the gluten strands have relaxed. If the gluten is still tense, there will be very little oven spring and that will contribute to a dense,heavy loaf. Often, a crumb shot shows a dense line at the bottom of the slice and a progression of increasing bubbles as you look from bottom to top of the slice. The crumb towards the top might look great.
A simple answer to your question is -Yes- it is entirely possible your loaf rose and collapsed/almost collapsed overnight and the yeast was spent so it did not rise/proof/spring at all. It is also possible(but prob. less likely if the starter was active) that it was underproofed. It is more likely if your dough was cold before it went into the refrig.So think about what your ambient room temp is when you are making your dough and possibly adjust the temp of the liquids to warm it up before refrigerating.
Try again
so here is a picture of the first bread i made that i think was over proofed.
so this is a picture of the bread as i put it in the oven (so it proofed last night then i put it in the fridge over night and all day, then took it out of the fridge for 1 hour. Pre heated the oven at 500 and decreased it to 450.then this is what it looks like after i baked it and sounds hollow..
as you can see it did not rise
they are still warm so I'm not going to cut into them to see what it looks like.
this is what the crumb looks like. its nice but a tiny bit heavy... i guess i could have used more hydration and a bit more of salt. maybe cooked it a bit longer (the compression of the bread on the bottom).
thoughts?
Not a bad looking loaf. The increased density in the line on the bottom makes it look UNDERproofed to me. The big hole on the side is a result of looser shaping. Is this rye?wheat? wholegrain? If yes to any of these, it might be better to bake at a lower temp for a little longer to help dry out the crumb a bit more as it bakes.
Sometimes I have found that wholegrain made with sourdough/natural levain can go from underproofed to overproofed in a matter of minutes. I'm sure barm bread falls into this category. Perhaps letting it sit for 10 minutes more before baking would have been better but it can be hard to judge.
Looking at your first pic, I can see why you thought they were overproofed but looking at the crumb, I believe it to be underproofed. Actually, not a bad loaf for all the experimentation on it. Keep going and bake some delicious joy!
the very first pic is that one that is overproofed...
the second loaf has white flour and some rye. these loaves were proofed for 3 hours in my home made proofing box then in the fridge all night and all day.. took them out to take the chill off.. so 1 hour in the sun (outside) then baked.