The Fresh Loaf

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Long cold proof failed again

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

Long cold proof failed again

After my first successful attempt, I decided to bake the Vermont Sourdough again but this time increased the rye by 5% and added a tablespoon of olive oil. I also tried an 7h45min proof in the fridge at 40.7F... This is where I screwed up I guess. But at least I know what cold overproofed dough feels like now? At around the 5h and 6h mark the dough still felt rather strong and passed the poke test. I guess I should have baked it then. But I thought that since the change within 1h was so little the dough could afford to retard longer with no change. Big mistake. At the 7h45min mark the dough felt much "airier", and I could actually feel one or two large air bubbles below the surface. While the top was still quite stiff and bounced back normally, indentations made on the side of the dough took veeeery long to fill back, and they largely remained. At this point I was thinking ohcrapitsoverproofed??? but also unsure... maybe this is what a fully proofed dough feels like?? and the previous bake could have been proofed ever-so-slightly more? Sigh.

Some pictures of the process:

At the end of bulk ferment (dough temperature: 76-7F). Saw bubbles beneath the surface so I preshaped, rested for 15min, shaped and rested for 5 min before putting in the fridge. I don't think it was overfermented at this stage...? Dough was quite easy to shape and held a tight ball.

Cold proof for 7h45min.... At this point I guess I sort of knew I pushed it too far... Usually the top of this dough is very stiff and bounces back pretty fast. This one felt more slack and "pliant".

 

Pancaked!

I thought that since I had maintained the dough temperature around 76F like wildyeastblog recommends I could do what she suggested in her Norwich Sourdough post and refrigerate for 2 – 16 hours... and it would be fine since I wouldn't even be doing the 1.5h proof at room temperature... Apparently not.

The minute I saw that giant hole in the middle of the loaf my heart sank... :((

I wonder why the dough, at a reasonable temperature of 76F, overproofed in the fridge (at 40.7F) when others seem to be able to do cold proofs for as long as 36 hours? Sigh. Advice? It was still delicious though. Another thing... this loaf isn't noticeably more sour than my previous attempt (2h proof at room temp). Why?

plevee's picture
plevee

It looks beautiful to me. The giant hole is probably just shaping.

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

Oh... what could have gone wrong during shaping? I didn't know poor shaping could cause big holes. I used Trevor Wilson's method here https://youtu.be/WxfbiGto4R8?t=5m23s

sadkitchenkid's picture
sadkitchenkid

It doesn't really matter if the dough pancakes when you flip it out! If it was handled properly it'll be strong enough to bounce back (which it did). I agree with plevee the holes are probably just shaping. It might even be a touch underproofed based on what I see under the scoring on the raw boule. I almost always cold proof my bread for around 10 hours (more for convenience than anything else), and when I take it out the next day, I find that it always needs to proof for another 2 hours or so on the counter top. Maybe try that in the future! This is still a gorgeous loaf though so good job!

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

Dang... Now I have no idea how to tell when a loaf is over/underproofed... What are the signs? I thought a tight crumb with one or two giant holes = overproofed... I will try this recipe out again!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

That is a lovely loaf. And agreed... that big hole in the middle is just the shaping. An over proofed dough wouldn't cause that. 

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

What happens during shaping that might cause that giant hole?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Not taking out the larger bubbles when shaping...

And/or, introducing air bubbles when shaping...

And/or, too much flour getting inside the loaf when shaping. 

But otherwise a lovely bread indeed and no signs of over proofing. On the contrary... Just perfect! 

pmccool's picture
pmccool

Let's see, how about the compressed crumb along the bottom crust that indicates overproofing?  Hmm, no, I don't see that.  How about the really pale crust with brown blotches?  Nope, can't see that either.  Are the really big bubbles lurking just under the top crust?  None of that happening that I can see.

Shaping might have trapped some air that led to the on significant cavity but that isn't a proofing issue.

What I see is a well-fermented, well-baked, lovely loaf of bread.  What's the failure that you see?

Paul

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

There were one or two giant bubbles that were just below the top crust... Not very visible but the second slice from the back in the first photo has a sort of missing chunk... there was a giant hole there where the crust broke off. I was kind of hoping for a more evenly open crumb with more moderately sized holes dispersed throughout?

lepainSamidien's picture
lepainSamidien

I have to concur with the madding crowd here -- I don't see any signs of over-proofing, and that's especially apparent in the last photo you snapped before your dough went into the oven to become bread. Overproofed dough will typically have a more "spill-y" effect as a result of the excess acidity breaking down the gluten network.

However, over-proofing can be considered in terms of taste in addition to structure. Structurally, your dough is not over-proofed, but if you find your bread too sour or with too much funk, then that could be another type of over-proofing. I worked with a peasant-baker in Alsace who would, if her dough proofed for just a little bit too long, reshape each bread so that it wouldn't have too strong of a taste of the sourdough starter (her clients didn't like it and she was working with some very special flours).

Just be careful not to use too much flour when shaping and to pop any really large air bubbles. Otherwise, you've got yourself a beautiful loaf there !

loafsniffer's picture
loafsniffer

To be honest, I found the loaf less sour than I was hoping for. Do you think it looks underproofed? Should I push the cold proof even further next time?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I don't know if it helps, but when I shape fairly soft dough I gently stretch it into a rectangle then poke it with my fingers (like poking focaccia) to 'chase' any big gas bubbles to the edges where they can be popped. Then I sort of pleat the edges into the middle, making sure I don't trap any air in the pleats / folds.

Of course, bread sometimes defeats any effort we make to achieve perfection anyway, right? And yours looks quite lovely, really. Crack an egg into the big hole, fry it up and top it with cheese. It'll be great. :)

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

my thoughts would be shaping caused the bubble, but what the heck, a resounding success in my eyes.  Happy baking loafsniffer

Leslie

gerhard's picture
gerhard

Looks like a good bread to me, pass the butter and I will have a slice or two.

Gerhard