A Fresh Loaf Loaf
They say it takes a village to raise a child. It also takes a village - a village of Fresh Loafers - to raise my bread.
Things were going swimmingly until one day, my starter had an identity crisis. But it wasn't that simple, because it was a secret identity crisis. My starter culture, which consisted of purely rye, was rising beautifully after each refreshing...3.5x in 10 hours. It was so airy that beyond the water float test, it looked like it might fly.
My bread on the other hand was flat -- and not in a flat is beautiful kind of way. I wasn't making rye breads either. Sure, they had a few grams of rye for flavor, but these were primarily white sourdoughs. Hamelman's Vermont Sourdough was more like a Vermont pancake. And this was the sourdough people started with...the easy, introductory sourdough people recommended to first-time bakers because it's yummy and straight-forward. But I wasn't getting it. I tried 3 times. Same story. I tried other recipes. No luck. My loaves looked nothing like the loaves other community members were making, even beginners baking their very first breads were putting me to shame. Frustrated, I considered giving up the whole thing. I have about 10 bread baking books and I've read every inch of them, but clearly, this just wasn't my particular talent. So the choice was to give in or double down.
The Fresh Loaf is the only reason I even had that choice. This community rescued me, troubleshot with me, advised and encouraged me.
I re-educated myself on shaping, benching, fermenting, everything I could think of that might compromise my rise. But in the end, this community helped me figure out that my problem was that my rye starter had become a picky eater, refusing to respond to any other variety of flour. And this community advised me on how to transition to a starter that would have more umph.
I'm still figuring out the perfect way to maintain my starter; it's a work-in-progress. But after about 2 weeks of working with it, I tried a loaf today. And as I have this community to thank for keeping me in the game, I wanted to make a TFL classic. Pictured is David's San Joaquin Sourdough. It rose beautifully and tasted great. The crumb was as good as any I had baked, even before the identity crisis. It's not perfect...I'm still pretty new at this...but it's light years beyond where I came from.
So, this is a Fresh Loaf Loaf because without this community, it never would have happened.
Special thanks to Mini Oven, Trevor Wilson, and the patron saint of sourdough starters, Debra Wink. And of course, to the good doctor for his great recipe and many others who offered advice.
I'm still working on it and the questions will still be coming...but a big THANK YOU for getting me here.
Comments
Those are handsome loaves all around. And you've now discovered what legions of other folks on Isle TFL already have. The SJSD is a wonderful and tasty bread.
Don't give up on the pure rye levains. They are easy, no really, to work with and give a lovely bulk rise and oven spring - once you get the hang of them. I've worked with 80%, 100% and 125% rye levains and they have never disappointed me. My current favorite levain of all is the 125% rye. So keep at it and discover what is the key that you need to get past pancake. They are a cinch to maintain, and the lower the hydration, the less frequent the refresh if you don't use them regularly. Even the 125% will keep in top shape for more than a week in the refrigerator without losing very much of its potency.
You don't mention the hydration of the rye levain, but I suggest that the 3.5x rise in the levain is expiring all off the yeast's food and it poops out by the time that you get to use it. With a doubling in growth, you should be ready to execute a formula with great results.
Nonetheless, congratulations on one fine bake. alan
Thanks for the encouragement. Rye is my holy grail, absolutely. My husband is a German. But as I understand it, sometimes those microbes just have minds of their own. I had no trouble raising rye flour with my rye sour. But the trouble is, one rarely makes a 100% rye bread. So, what I need to do is cultivate a starter that doesn't balk at other flours. Not sure I can control that. Do you have any tips?
For the most part, it really doesn't matter all that much which bread formula you use as your base. Once you learn to adjust pretty much any formula and method to meet the requirements of the levain, hydrations, flour mix and your personal interests, the bread world will be your oyster.
So, just for fun, you can try the Hamelman Pain au Levain with a 125% rye hydration levain as shown here. In this instance, you would need to add the levain to the water and flour up front, as a pure autolyse would be way too dry. And therefore your fermentation starts at the point of adding the levain, and not post-autolyse.
Below is the SJSD formula reworked for 100% rye levain. I just created this a few minutes ago from the original for you to have a gander at. Keep in mind that I've never run this version - although now I might do just that!, so this is just a suggestion of how you can alter a formula if you wish. As soon as you change some components for a bread, i.e. SJSD in this case, it is no longer David's SJSD, but your own version of it. Which, to me, is a good thing and one of the fun parts of doing all of this.
9.20%
The formula above is designed to yield exactly how much levain is needed for the mix plus exactly how much levain starter remains for the next set of builds. Which is the method that Mr. Hamelman lays out in his book.
As mentioned in the earlier comment, I keep some of the levain sitting in my refrigerator often, just awaiting whatever I feel like making next. And so I typically make a lot more levain that I will be using for a formula with the remainder placed back into the refrigerator for a next build and a next mix. I like to have a small boatload more at the ready.
These are only a mere two suggestions to have you play around with a pure rye levain if you wish to explore them. I really like the flavor that the small amount of added rye gives to many breads, so I favor using it more and more, as long as it doesn't take away from the original flavor profile too much. That being said, the road ahead is quite open for experimentation. Have at it!
alan
Thanks for the formula! If I ever get a rye starter going again, I hope I won't have the same trouble.
Will definitely keep this in the back pocket!!! My current starter does contain 20% rye, 20% wheat and 60% white. I was hoping that blending them would help to raise any kind of bread. So, maybe this could work. I would expect that since my last one didn't raise anything but a rye levain, it probably wouldn't raise anything but 100% rye bread either. But since my new starter may not have the same issues, maybe I'll give it a go.
Definitely post if you make this one! I can't wait to see it.
Thank you.
I have never had a starter of any kind, especially a rye one that became a picky eater - and have always considered this notion a bit of a myth. I have starters of all kinds that were weak though and wcould not make a 3 stage - 4 hours each,100% hydration levain double within 4 hour after the 3rd feeding.
Levain building is a process that proves the levain is ready to do its work. I just feed a small bit of NMNF rye starter, 10 g, what ever flour is in the bread mix over 3 - 4 hour progressively larger feedings without throwing anything away. When it doubles after the last feeding it is ready to go. It proves that it can double the levain then it will double the bread a couple of times too - every time. If it can't it just means that the levain is weak, just toss half of the weak levain and do the 3rd feeding again.
My stiff rye NMNF starter is stored up to half a year in the fridge so at 20 weeks it can become slow so the 3 stage levain build is the way it can prove to me it is ready. The wee beasties feed on sugars that come from the starches in the flour being broken down with the help of enzyme catalysts found in the flour If those sugars are produced then the we beasties will eat them - they don't eat flour, which is carbohydrate / starch so the flour doesn't matter- the right amount of enzymes do though and why malted white flours and an autolyse of flour and water will help ensure there are plenty of sugars for the wee beasties to eat.
Wee beastes aren't smart enough to be picky eaters like humans, thank goodness, but they do eat what they eat and only what they eat - sugars.
Happy baking
I've read up on your NFNM starter. I'm glad you reminded me. I wasn't planning to keep more than one starter due to the maintenance. This morning, I was teasing my husband that I had to feed my baby's "little brother" who had already peaked before feeding the baby. But with your method, more than one starter is totally possible.
When I was making the levains for Vermont Sourdough with my rye starter, they weren't bubbly. But since they were 125% hydration, I thought that was due to the high water content and the lack of gluten in the rye not holding any bubbles. So, I went ahead...each time. Each time was a fail. At that point, I didn't know the starter was the problem, so the situation was all a bit fuzzy. Later on, I experimented with other sourdoughs and the problem was the same. I tried more levains than I can count. The higher percentage of rye, the better it seemed to work. I wasn't experimenting with that variable in mind, but it was a trend that I noticed. That's when I started to suspect the starter. Some research confirmed it was possible. I never did any controlled experiments, so it's possible that it's a myth and that simply through my education and working on a different starter environment, I've just become better at maintaining it. The old starter is gone now, so I'll guess I'll never know.
In any case, troubleshooting this problem has taught me a lot about starters. So, if I go back to a rye starter, I'll be way better equipped to troubleshoot. Rye bread is definitely calling my name.
Fantastic looking loaves!
I guess I should be thanking you too as the author of the website that saved me. Thanks a bunch!
Nice job!
You've got to be proud of these ones - can't wait to see the crumb and to hear if the taste is as good as the appearance.
Great work. Please crumb us.
If I knew how to use the file browser...but I've never been able to figure it out. Anybody got tips?
You just drag the images onto the page--just kidding.
1. Have your images saved somewhere.
2. Click on the tree ("Insert/Edit Image").
3. Under "Image URL" click "Browse" icon.
4. Click "Upload" in upper left.
5. Click "Choose File," choose it, click the "Upload" button. This puts it in the TFL directory for selection.
6. Select your file, click the "Insert" button, and it is inserted.
I will see if I can host it somewhere else and link to it. Certain selections appear to be missing depending on which browser I use.
Those loaves look really great!
Happy baking, Joze
A great post and a great looking set of ballet slippers (that's the first thing I thought when I saw them.. particularly the "toes"..) .. I think you expressed what so many of us here have felt at some point along the way.. that this community is a very generous one.. I'm not sure that there's many more enjoyable hobbies than learning to bake great rustic leavened bread and sharing it with family and friends.. enjoy the journey.. and bake happy.. bread1965!
And isn't it great when you have a group of people who appreciate the things and marvel at them with you. Ballet slippers! Only on this website with other bread-nerds would someone pay such a lovely compliment. I stopped posting my breads of facebook because people started to think I was a little too weird and obsessed.
Love this place.
Thanks for the nice reply.
Okay, here it is. (That's a different loaf...Forkish Field Blend #2 in background. Well, more like Counter-Top Blend...made it from what was left over in the bottom of my flour bags.)
everything that the outward appearance promised - awesome job!
The "background" loaf is worthy of a post, too, by the way...
Thanks for sharing!
Beautiful shaping, scoring and crumb structure.
David
So, that means a lot. Need to get my ends pointier. Well, I'll be making your awesome recipe again, so lots of opportunity to practice. Thanks again!
really really nice.
Leslie