The Fresh Loaf

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Tartine starter

Combo64's picture
Combo64

Tartine starter

Hey,

So ive been following Tartine No.3 starter. Its been around 3 weeks now and my starter has been rising and falling consistently but im worried I dont have enough yeast. 

It doesnt smell yeasty or beer like.

Ive been feeding it every 24 hours 75g starter and 150 grams water and 150g 50/50 flour mix.

Im just unsure how i can promote that beer like smell, at the moment it doesnt smell of much at all.

Does water or more food promote yeast growth?

Here are some photos of it after a feed 8 hours on

http://imgur.com/BCi9aHB

http://imgur.com/G0hRrQP

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

My starters dont smell like beer either especially if they are being fed regularly. They smell like bread dough to me so I wouldn't worry about the smell. Your starter looks nice and active so go ahead and use it. 

Combo64's picture
Combo64

Thank you. I did  float test and around 4 hours later it passed.

I wonder why it doesnt smell acidic or yeasty or beer like not even fermented fruity smell.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Mine gets an acetone type of smell after a long time in the fridge. The smell goes as soon as I give it a healthy feeding. 

pmitc34947's picture
pmitc34947

I, too, am experiencing difficulties with my starter which was cultivated using Chad Roberts directions as outlined in his "Tartine Bread" book. Earlier this week I e-mailed the very helpful folks at King Arthur Flour with a question about how to pinpoint when is the most vital time in a wet starter's life as that would be the time I would want to begin building a durum semolina preferment with it. Their answer has some good info you may find helpful...

The consistency and composition of your starter and how warm the environment is has a big effect on how fast it reaches maturity. For a white flour starter that is 100% hydration and composed of equal parts starter, flour and water (by weight), typically it takes about 8 hours or so for the starter to reach its peak of fermentation (the highest point of rising and fermenting) before it begins to fall. A stiff (50% hydration) starter will take a bit longer to rise. 

I can't give you an exact time for how long to let your starter or preferment mature, but it will be at its most active and productive if you catch it at this peak, or just as it begins to fall. 

For best results I would allow the preferment to wait the full 12-14 hours, as the recipe indicates. In this case the proportion of starter to flour and water is small, so this means it will take longer to mature than a starter that is composed of equal parts starter, flour and water. In the feedings leading up to the final feeding you may get a better sense of how long it takes to get to this peak with this particular preferment.

Combo64's picture
Combo64

Ok so i did the float test but what im noticing is mould is growing fast on the leaven. This must mean over feeding which means the PH is far too high too. 

Would feeding 1:0.5:0.5 fix this?

pmitc34947's picture
pmitc34947

Tricky, you need to decide how bad the damage. If you feel it is salvageable read on the following is from...

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/sourdough/sourdough-troubleshooting-faq/DEALING WITH MOLD

While mold on a sourdough starter is fairly rare, it does happen from time to time. The cause is usually some sort of contamination with food or soap residue, or weakened yeast due to a forgotten feeding.

If mold does appear, it may be time to discard the starter and begin again with a new starter, or it may be possible to revive the starter. Exercise good judgment. If the mold is only infecting the surface, reviving the starter may be appropriate. If mold is penetrating the entire starter below the surface, discard and obtain a new starter.

Instructions for Recovering a Moldy Sourdough Starter:
  1. Remove the mold from the surface.
  2. Using a clean utensil, remove a small portion of the sourdough that wasn’t near the mold. A tablespoon will suffice.
  3. Put that tablespoon in a clean container, and feed using the ratio one part starter to one part water to a scant two parts flour. If measuring ingredients by weight, use equal parts of starter, flour, and water.
  4. Mix, cover with a breathable lid, and proof for 12 hours.
  5. Feed the starter again using the same ratio. Continue to feed for several days and watch carefully for any signs of mold.
  6. If there are no signs of mold or unpleasant aroma, the starter may be used again for baking or stored in the refrigerator.

Remember that sourdough is a living thing that can be unpredictable. Thankfully it is also a fairly resilient thing that can often be brought to life even after the biggest of trials.

pmitc34947's picture
pmitc34947

Tricky, you need to decide how bad the damage. If you feel it is salvageable read on the following is from...

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/learn/sourdough/sourdough-troubleshooting-faq/DEALING WITH MOLD

While mold on a sourdough starter is fairly rare, it does happen from time to time. The cause is usually some sort of contamination with food or soap residue, or weakened yeast due to a forgotten feeding.

If mold does appear, it may be time to discard the starter and begin again with a new starter, or it may be possible to revive the starter. Exercise good judgment. If the mold is only infecting the surface, reviving the starter may be appropriate. If mold is penetrating the entire starter below the surface, discard and obtain a new starter.

Instructions for Recovering a Moldy Sourdough Starter:
  1. Remove the mold from the surface.
  2. Using a clean utensil, remove a small portion of the sourdough that wasn’t near the mold. A tablespoon will suffice.
  3. Put that tablespoon in a clean container, and feed using the ratio one part starter to one part water to a scant two parts flour. If measuring ingredients by weight, use equal parts of starter, flour, and water.
  4. Mix, cover with a breathable lid, and proof for 12 hours.
  5. Feed the starter again using the same ratio. Continue to feed for several days and watch carefully for any signs of mold.
  6. If there are no signs of mold or unpleasant aroma, the starter may be used again for baking or stored in the refrigerator.

Remember that sourdough is a living thing that can be unpredictable. Thankfully it is also a fairly resilient thing that can often be brought to life even after the biggest of trials.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Then I'm afraid it's a no go! 

If it's anything else then try and save it by finding some healthy starter and feeding it with flour and pineapple juice making sure your jar and utensils are thoroughly cleaned. 

Best of luck. 

Combo64's picture
Combo64

Would pineapple juice really have any effect at all this late in?

The mould isnt all the way through the starter. I can tell a few dots are forming on the hard skin on top.

Its salvageable i just dont know if i continue to feed or not.

 

If i feed do I do a 1:1:1 or 1:05:05 or a 2:1:1

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Only on top and salvageable then I'd take some healthy starter out and place in a clean bowl. Then I'd wash out the jar and utensils thoroughly! Even scald it out. Once clean and dry then I'd place the starter back in the jar and give it a few feeds with pineapple juice. Hopefully the acidity will keep any rogue bad bacteria at bay. Once all seems well then I'd switch back to water. 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

and feed it 60 g of whole grain rye and 35 g of water,  When it rises more than 25% and less than 50% put it in the bottom shelf the frdge for 8 weeks and don't touch it.  Then open the lid and smell it.  It will smell like beer, yeast and maybe if you are lucky...... dirty socks.  Then you will have a starter perfed-ct for Tartine 3 breads.

Happy baking 

Combo64's picture
Combo64

I don't think the mould is from dirty jars, i only use a dishwasher. The jars are always 100% immaculate and crystal clean.

I think its more PH related due to overfeeding.

I know stirring the starter will prevent the mould from growing.

Its just a plan of action to get the PH lower.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

in starters.  Just get some non moldy parts and feed them it a like weight otf flour and water.  If you find 20 g feed it equal oarts of flour and water that totals 20 g adn then wait 6 hours adn feed it 40 tof=tal flour and water an hte 6 hours later feed it 8o total flour adn water,  In 4 hours hyou starter will be back to normal.  Donlt feed it too much at a time or you will have problems  Make sure it rises and falls a complete cycle before trying to feed it again.

Combo64's picture
Combo64

Well i finally have yeast in my starter.

What i did was I didnt feed it yesterday. Then today i did a normal feed of 1:2:2. I put an extra 1-2 tbsp of water in. I once read a starter with more water will be more geared to yeast development.

Well it worked! Im not going to feed it again and tomorrow ill feed it to really get it active. Then ill do a feed every 12 hours and bake!