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My very very first mother starter, is it ready yet?

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

My very very first mother starter, is it ready yet?

I've been using fleischmann's yeast ever since I've learned to bake baking six years ago. Finally took a step forward and made my first mother starter. I've used the pineapple method which consisted of 28 grams of all purpose flour and 28 grams of whole wheat flour by King Author. 56 grams of pineapple juice for the first 4 days then switching to water beginning on day 5.

It is now day 8 and my mother starter doubles in size in just four hours after feeding.  It has some bubbles on top but not as much as I've seen in pictures on the internet. The Dirty Sock smell as (I call it has) gone away and now smells much tamer. Because this is my first starter I have nothing to compare the smell to but it has gone through about three or four different smell changes. The Taste is Tangy. 

I was under the impression that once a mother starter doubles in size in 4 to 8 hours after feeding that it is ready to be used for baking. Is this a wrong assumption? 

Based on what I've described and the pictures below, is my mother starter ready?

Also would somebody send me a beginners recipe for a white French style bread using my new mother?

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

But it is a bit young. You could dive into a recipe to put your starter through its paces and see what happens. Or keep on feeding it for the next few days to build strength. Some might say to do a hybrid loaf but that won't tell us if your starter is firing on all cylinders. So you have two options...

1: keep on feeding your starter but switch to a better feed of 1:5:5, seeing how your starter fares and build strength. 

2. Try a simple recipe such as this one https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/sourdough-pain-naturel/

If you go for the recipe option then take a little starter off and build a Levain as described (they call it a Poolish but not technically correct) but keep on feeding your starter as normal.

A side view of your starter says more! But looks great to me.

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

I am a newbie so what is 1:5:5?

I attached a side view but the bubbles very tiny. I can't seem to get the bubbles to become bigger. That is as big been since day one.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Whenever you see this sequence for a starter feed it means starter:water:flour by weight! 

So a feed of 1:1:1 would be, for example, 20g starter + 20g water + 20g flour. 

1:5:5 would be, for example, 10g starter + 50g water + 50g flour. 

Your feeds until now have been ok but not too big. This will be the reason for it peaking quickly. To build a good yeast population and therefore strength try and increase your feeds. See how your starter reacts. If it continues the way it has been doing it'll be a good indicator it's strong enough for a bake. 

If you wish you could try a recipe now and increase its feed of fresh flour. 

I can see the side view now. It has risen to the mark and fallen. Looks like it's doing well. Up to you how you wish to proceed. Remember a greater feed means more rise so don't overflow the bowl. There's no need to discard anymore. When feeding save up what you need to remove and keep it in the fridge. You can put it into other recipes for flavour and it can be a backup if anything goes wrong. Eventually you won't have to discard at all with careful maintenance. 

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

Will this new 1:5:5 feeding be once every 24 hours, the same as what I've been doing with the 1:1:1?

Also for clarification, when my mother starter is officially ready, will my maintenance feeds be back to 1:1:1?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

are different from maintenance feeds.

Once the yeast have established in the culture (now) it needs more food for maintenance, to maintain a large number of yeast cells.  

Feeding the culture with less water with thicken it and it will also rise higher because less gas is lost at the surface.  If you ask me, I would say that your 100% hydration (equal weights of water and flour) fed starter is ready to bake.  Such a wet starter rising at least double is a good sign.  Go ahead and try a recipe with it.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

(less water) to about dough consistency and let it rise to peak.  Time it.  Then at peak, remove a large portion for a bake, then feed the smaller portion to maintain it.  

Weigh the bake portion...  then use in a 1,2,3 (s,w,f) sourdough loaf.  Hold back on some of the water as most recipe flours won't need all of it.    

Say your starter weighs 100g.  

Multiply by 2 to get the water amount 200g  which comes out to about 71% hydration which is a little high for AP flour so don't use all of it unless you like wet doughs.  Save back about 50g (57% hydration) and add a spoon at a time to adjust the dough.  The dough should feel a little bit stiffer than a yeasted dough because as it ferments it will end up with a wetter feel than a yeasted dough.  So you should come out about right for the final shaping.

Multiply by 3 to get the flour weight 300g.  

To get the salt amount, take the flour amount in the starter and add it to the flour weight in the recipe (350g.... now find 2%  and use that or a little less.  (for a starter of 100g/100% hydration, that would be 7g salt)  

More can be found site searching the 1 2 3  or 1,2,3 or the 1-2-3  Sourdough posts.  

Mix up the dough and let it rise about one third.  Deflate with a folding method, cover and park into the fridge overnight and shape the next day warming up the dough with your hands.  Let it proof a few hours and bake.

Or don't retard in the fridge and just let it rise and deflate with folding until the yeast bubbles are well distributed in the dough before the final fold and shape.  

Lets see... roughly the first rise to 1/3 might take anywhere from 4 to 12 hours depending on the yeast population.  The following section of rising and folding, final shaping and proofing may take about the same block of time.  Don't let the final proof double but bake before it gets "there."    Since SD is a good deal slower than a standard yeast recipe, the waiting can seem to take forever.  I suggest starting out with a slightly stiffer dough than what you are used to and then cut the dough open with a sharp knife to look at dough gas formation as you ferment it.  Big large bubbles surrounded by solid looking dough would indicate that the dough needs longer fermentation.  You should also be able to smell the difference as it ferments.  

Also look up... dough gauge 

Oh and about those 24 hour feeds.  You will first have to feed the starter and wait for a peak of activity, time it and repeat the feeding as the dough peaks and starts to fall back down.  It should shorten a few hours with each peak & feed if all conditions are the same.  

You can then adjust the amount of food and water to make the feeding longer or shorter to fit your schedule.  Parameters: Don't feed more than every 8 hours or less than once a day (unless there is no activity.)  If you find the starter peaking sooner, feed more flour so it takes longer to peak and start to fall back.   I suggest aiming for a starter that peaks in 8 hours, wait, and is then fed roughly every 12 hours when standing on the counter top in a no draft spot at about 23°C.  When the starter culture has set into a pattern and is predictable which may or may not take a few weeks.  I would then think about chilling it to slow down metabolism and get my freedom back.  Let the freshly fed starter rise about a third and then chill for at least 4 days before using.  It will easily keep weeks in the fridge.  If you let the starter peak before chilling, use it sooner.  You feed and let it show activity to fit your baking schedule.  That's part of the fun stuff.  :)  

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

Due to technical difficulties this morning ( I was called into work) I did a 1:3:3 instead of your recommended 1:5:5.

I used 60 grams of the original mother starter, 100 grams of King Arthur all purpose flour and 100 grams of King Arthur whole wheat flour. 200 grams of good water. 

So after returning from work, the starter that I mixed up this morning for testing purposes had raised well over double it's volume. I worked an 8 hour shift.

Pictures below show the doubling in size however very few bubbles are at the very top. When looking at the side view there are millions of Tiny Bubbles.

So back to my original question  in the original  thread  starter above, what do you think is my original mother starter  ready to use  or still needs a bit more time ?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

You can also make a dough with a much higher amount of starter (you have at least 400g for fun)  Remove a little bit to feed and get at it!   Write down the details as you work.

Weigh the starter and mix with equal parts of flour  and figure the weight of the total flour to figure salt.  Get that in right away as you add enough water to make a dough.  Since you have a large portion of fermented flour, you can go straight into the final steps.  You need perhaps one folding in about half an hour from mixing up this dough and then do a  10 min rest and then shape the dough for a final proof in a tin or a floured banneton.

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

Thank you. Working on a loaf but from the original mother starter. If successful I will post pictures of the loaf. If not successful I will post pictures of my Tears hahahaha hahaha

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

it will be stronger.

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

I used the original first mother that I had the question about. The bread is currently in the oven as I am typing this. So far it looks like it had very good oven spring. I will take a picture just as it comes out of the oven and another picture once the loaf has cooled down and I am able to cut into it. 

pmitc34947's picture
pmitc34947

Looks great to me! Do you have a photo from the side? Could it be you are not seeing as many bubbles due the time of day you are looking? Has the temperature changed at all where you keep the starter? Are you using water and flour at the same temperature. I would keep refreshing it for another few days before you bake. Just so the starter is energized. This will give you more oven spring in your baking.

 

 

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

Side picture is up now

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

The good lLAB should be good to go by day 7 if all is perfect and the yeast a day later.  So 8 days is a go in my book based on your description.  It will still be weak and slow and not give you the flavor it will in another 3 weeks time - but waiting is part of the sourdough club.  There you go - a whole new bread experience awaits.

Well done and happy baking 

BKSinAZ's picture
BKSinAZ

I baked this loaf to test the new mother starter. I rushed so I can get to bed in order to go to work tomorrow and therefore finished the loaf of bread at midnight. Again it was just to test the mother starter and I could not be more happier. 

I did not have a pot to bake the bread in so I just free formed it. I did not have a lame so I scored the bread with a pocket knife but all and all I was very impressed with the texture of the bread. It was not sour as a sourdough but it did have a very mild tangy hint. 

I did not measure out anything with the exception of the salt. Because I was on a very tight schedule I just threw in a mixing bowl about 1.5 cups of the new starter and then just mixed in about 2.5 cups all purpose flour and water until the consistency felt like about a 65% hydration. Dumped in about 9 grams of salt. Normally I would weigh everything but again I wanted to get this test done so I could get to bed. Initial rise was only  two and a half hours  and the second proofing was about an hour and 15 minutes