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Making sourdough starter

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Making sourdough starter

hi! this is my first time making a sourdough starter, i used 1:1 ratio of bread flour and water.

i made it this monday and fed it yesterday.

this is what it looks like now, theres a separation of water and flour at the bottom. Is this normal?

this is the top view

http://i474.photobucket.com/albums/rr109/bojmenyek/IMG_0700.jpg

 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Do you mean by volume or weight?

I think you went by volume. 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

i made it by weight

PatMax's picture
PatMax

bOjMenyek ,  that  foam looks heathy.

 Stir the liquid  back into the batter and then add  some more flour and a splash of fresh cold water .  

And don't get too hooked into the weights ,  measures , and ratios  , this is a  bread starter  not a  souffle recipe .

Oh yeah ,  take your photos from further back , so we can see the whole jar just as you see it , 

 

 cheers , 

Pat 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

To add to Pat's comment...

Getting some wholegrains in there will help your starter along. Whole rye or whole wheat. They've got all the good stuff for a starter's health.

You will find a quick burst of activity in the first 3-4 days. Then you might find all goes quiet. Do not panic! This is perfectly normal. The quick burst of activity is a "false start" if you will. When everything goes quiet the bad bacteria is dying off, with the starter becoming acidic, making way for the good bacteria and yeasts. So things are happening even if all seems quiet. Most people begin to overfeed at this stage trying to wake their starter up again but this is counterproductive. It just raises the PH level making it less acidic and just slows it down. Best to skip a feed or two (or even three), keep warm and stir. Once it begins to wake up again then start the feeds again.

Keep warm! Try and keep it at around 78°F. This will speed things up. Trying to get a starter going in the cold takes a very long time.

PATIENCE! Making a starter will test you patience. Be strong.

Ford's picture
Ford

I strongly recommend Debra Wink's "pineapple juice solution" to produce a sourdough starter.  She uses whole grain flour because of the greater amount of yeast and lactobacteria found in it and she uses pineapple juice because of the acidity.  Put "pineapple juice solution" in the search box upper right part of this page.

Ford

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Here's what it looks like after i stirred it earlier. I'll be following Lechem's advice on not to feed it for 2 days. Lets see what happens to my starter tomorrow.

Thanks for the input guys! 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Don't panic if it starts to smell bad. It needs time to develop the right type of bacteria and the smell is caused by the wrong type. Let it do its own thing and the right kind will take over. 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Thicken it up with wholegrain and count that as a feed. Then I would continue with feeds when it needs! feeding. One can't put a time limit on it. Keep warm and stir every 12 hours. 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Yesterday after i stirred my starter, i noticed that its a little bit watery and i thought it was lacking flour. I added 3 spoons of bread flour then stirred it again.

here's what it looked like when i checked it this morning.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Your starter was active but you couldn't see it because it was too liquid. Now that's what I call activity!

Now whittle the starter down so it fits inside the container even when active. Give it a few more feed with some added wholegrain and at a lower hydration then it'll be ready for baking.

P.s. I'm not entirely sure what stage you're at, whether you've gotten over the quiet period or this is the initial burst of activity. Should all go quiet do not panic! Very normal. Just carry on feeding and keep us informed of how it's going.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)

PatMax's picture
PatMax

Cap that volcano quick , lol .

 Split that starter , putting a spoon or two into a fresh jar  that has a loose lid and room for the mix to grow , and carry on .  A loose lid because the live mix has to be able to breath .

Put the rest  into a batter jug or bowl   , feed it some  flour and water , cover and refrigerate for a few days .  Make pancakes or pikelets  or  crumpets with it .

PatMax's picture
PatMax

turn your photos the right way up , me neck is getttin' sore  .. lol

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

It seems that when loading up photos from apple they come up every single way except for the right way up

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

yeah i'm using iphone :D

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

sorry about that haha

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Being afraid of overspilling again, i transfered it lol. After the transfer, it became quiet.

5pm came (24hr feeding time), i fed it with 3 heaping spoon fulls of whole wheat flour. 

After a couple of minutes, tiny bubbles appeared on top.

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Strong!

With a few more healthy feeds (by healthy I mean it should be fed atleast it's own weight with fresh flour or more) and you should be ready for a weekend bake if it keeps this up.

Got anything in mind? I recommend this for a first sourdough... https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/sourdough-pain-naturel/ 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

I'll start the healthy feeding tomorrow. Should i get the weight of my starter then feed it with the exact weight of flour? should i feed combined water and flour or just flour? Also should i use 50:50 whole wheat and bread flour or just one of them?

Wow thanks for the recipe, i'll make that bread when my starter gets ready.

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

and good practice when feeding your starter.

A feeding of 1:1:1 is starter:water:flour all by weight. So it'll be fed the same weight of water and flour plus the water and flour are each the same weight as the starter. When a starter is fed at least it's own weight in fresh flour then it is a good feed. It makes for a strong and healthy starter. It encourages a healthy balance of yeast to bacteria. Getting some wholegrains in there is also very beneficial. There is no exact formula as everyone keeps their starter differently. I keep mine at 50% hydration so that is a feed of 1:0.5:1. This makes it the consistency of a dough. I also feed it 80% bread flour + 20% whole rye or whole-wheat. Because mine is well established (yours will be soon) I keep this in the fridge and take a little off to build a levain each time I wish to bake. When my starter in the fridge runs low then i'll feed it again, allow it to rise by half then return it to the fridge. Eventually you'll adopt a similar schedule. It's very handy as you won't be slave to your starter anymore. Because I'm allowing my starter to whittle down a lot till it's fed again then I give it a good feed of 1:2.5:5. That is 5x the weight of the starter with fresh flour and water is kept to 50%. You don't have to keep yours this way but I find it works for me. I don't build too much, there's no discard and it can go a while between feeds.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

To make it more simple for now (it'll become second nature when you use and maintain it).

As an idea you can do as follows...

Keep 50g starter each time and feed it 50g warm water + 50g flour (40g bread flour + 10g whole wheat or whole rye).

Save any discard to use in pancakes or waffles etc.

If you think your starter is strong enough and it'll benefit from bigger feeds then you can also do as follows...

Keep 30g starter and feed it 60g warm water + 60g flour (48g bread flour + 12g whole wheat or whole rye). This is a feed of 1:2:2.

What you can do is start with a feed of 1:1:1 for the next feed. If all goes well then for the next feed progress onto 1:2:2. This will be all strength building.

See how your starter reacts.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

alright, tomorrow im gonna feed it 1:1:1 then check what happens.

hoping there wont be any starter spills tonight haha!

thank you guys for the help! 

 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

my starter was quiet when i checked it this morning. It looked the same as yesterday with tiny bubbles on top. 

just gave it a stir then planning to give it a 1:1:1 feed later.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Your last feed after the volcano eruption. What did you do and how much did you feed? Don't be in a hurry to feed again just now. This may be the quiet stage. Just stir and keep warm.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

After the volcano scene, i transfered it to a bigger container (morning). At 5pm, i fed it with 3 spoons of whole wheat flour. <-this happened yesterday, we're not on the same timezone caue i'm from the Philippines.

today it was quiet when i checked it around 6am, just gave it a stir earlier.

 

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Difficult to know. Is it the quiet stage or did it not bubble up so much because of a poor feed?

What does it smell like?

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

its like smelling rubbing alcohol, it has a burning sensation on the nose when you smell it. theres also some sourness to it. 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Go onto the 1:1:1 feed (see below and further suggestion).

Do not feed again, after the 1:1:1 feed, until you see activity. Just stir and keep warm.

PatMax's picture
PatMax

a very large starter, to the point of being a wet dough ciabatta style .

Were it mine , I would take two tablespoons of the mix and drop it into a  sterilized glass jar and carry on treating it as the  starter  . And when I feed it , it'll  just be  a spoon of flour and a dash of fresh cold tap water .

The rest , I would use to make something with , just for fun   , and see what happens

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

at least 24 hours after the last feed. Then do not feed again till it wakes up. I think you're going through the quiet stage after the false start. Until it shows more signs of life just continue to stir and keep warm. Use this time to have a break.

If this is indeed the quiet stage then starter prior to this I wouldn't use. Probably leuconostoc activity. What you could do is do a side experiment and run it alongside this starter. Take...

10g starter, from the discard, and feed it 25g warm water + 50g flour (40g bread flour + 10g whole wheat or whole rye). Knead into a small limp of dough and place in a clean small glass jar. Again, leave this one till it whos signs of life.

SO you'll have one liquid starter and another stiff starter. Compare and contrast them.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

I just checked it righit now, few to none micro bubbles with alcohol/ethanol smell that gives a burning sensatin to the nose. 

I think i know what happened, the starter was hit directly by sunlight yesterday afternoon, the container was beside the window and sat there for about 1-2hrs and it might killed it. 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

130°F + I doubt that has happened. This is the quiet stage. In the life of a starter the initial bubbling up happens quite quickly after which all "seems" to go quiet. The first bubbling is from bacteria you don't want. When that dies down the starter goes quiet but it's becoming acidic creating an environment where the yeasts + good bacteria can live. So things are happening. Trick is to now feed only when you see activity. You might have to skip a day or two (or even three). After this next feed all you'll do is stir and keep warm. Till the next stage.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Alright its 5pm here now so i wont feed it, i'll just stir it again. lets see what happens tomorrow.

 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

If you haven't done so already then go onto the waiting game.

PatMax's picture
PatMax

If so , that is a normal part of the process .  Acetate smell is common in starters , even well established ones 

 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Yeah like acetone smell, with a burning sensation on the nose when you smell it

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

bOjMenyek's Sourdough Starter










Here's what it looks like.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Where are we now? Fed again? Not fed again?

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Its friday, 6:31pm here. I haven't fed it yet as per your suggestion to leave it for a day or two. that's what it looks like combined with acetone/alcohol smell.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Then play the waiting game.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

sorry i didnt notice that you want me to feed it 1:1:1. Should i feed it now?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Like suggested. 50g starter + 50g warm water + 50g flour. But because I see your starter is very watery I'm going to make a slight change here. 50g flour = 25g bread flour + 25g wholegrain (be it whole-wheat, whole-rye or a mix).  

Then wait! Until it shows signs of life just stir and keep warm.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Alright i'm going to feed it. 50g starter + 50g warm water + 50g flour (25g bread flour + 25g whole wheat flour).

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

I made a 50g starter + 50g warm water + 25g bread flour + 25g whole wheat flour. This was made earlier, around 7pm, its now 12:20 am. Lets see what happens later.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

If as Mini says that your starter is mature then it'll be nice and bubbly in the morning. Actually it's been almost 5 hours and you should have seen some activity if your starter was mature. If you had given a greater feed, it wasn't mature yet and what we saw was just the initial bubbling up then a greater feed would be counter productive. This way you've done a more balanced feed to see which way it's heading or where it's at. Should it be fully active by morning then it's ready and follow mini's greater feeding. Or if its quiet then we know your starter is in the quiet stage and you just stir and keep warm till it wakes up again. 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

A friend told me that the mixture had risen up to that black mark last night, friday around 11pm.. But when i checked it this morning, saturday, it's flat again. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

from 7pm to 11pm is only 4 hours.

You want to feed it enough flour to reach a peak...um.... how many times did you want to feed the starter per day?

Stiffen it up (more flour less water) so the yeast take longer to go thru the food and the yeast population can build without killing each other. Aim for a 8 hour peak to feed at 12 hours (give or take an hour or two.) If you don't use or feed the starter right away, you can chill it at peak for use in 24 hours. If you're not ready to bake and want to chill longer, chill when the culture is about 1/3 risen to half risen and use in about 4 days or more. You can control the rate of fermentation using the amount of flour (one to one or more) water and temperature.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

Following your suggestion about stiffening my starter. I fed it at 3pm using 1:1:2 ratio, 50g starter : 50g warm water : 80g bread flour + 20g whole wheat flour. 

Then came 6:30pm, it was rising.

Should i let it sit until tomorrow morning? its almost 7pm here right now.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

make up a dough, let it rise about 1/3, fold and deflate and then pop that into the fridge.  Shape and final rise tomorrow when you have time to rise and bake it.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

i placed it into the fridge. im planning to use it on monday.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

go for it.  It should be ready when you are.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

In case my 1st starter fails, i made a backup starter.  It is composed of 100g warm water, 50g bread flour, and 50g whole wheat flour. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

it happened with the thin feel, thickening and then quadrupling of the starter. (4 to 5 times the volume is normal head space in a starter jar)   Now it is in grave danger of being underfed in warm tropical temperatures.  The starter has shifted from Monday when it was started until now... the timing is about right too.   Thin starters ferment faster so it is time to thicken it up, more to dough consistency.   

Thicken it up so it is less apt to over-ferment.  You only need to feed a tablespoon or two of the starter culture and put the rest into the refrigerator and use up right away.  Thicken the starter and instead of using a 1:1:1 ratio, use half the amount of water.  (s,w,f)  and up the flour ratio.   like 1: 2: 4    or  just double the starter amount with water and add enough flour to make a dough ball kneading it with your fingers.  Aim for a medium feel, not too dry and not floppy soft.  Then let it ferment in the bottom of a container packing it flat and marking the level.  It should smell more like wet flour and as it ferments it will smell more yeasty.  Cover to keep out bugs and retain moisture.

Find a cool place for it to ferment but not in the refrigerator just yet.  Time the newly fed starter to see how long it takes to peak or expand before deflating for the first time.   

If you don't believe me you can try several things all at one time, you do have enough of the culture to play around with several ideas.  

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

thank you for this!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and put your starter to work right away.

PatMax's picture
PatMax

you're on your way now 

 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

What should i do before using the starter to make bread?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Take enough off to build the Levain (wrongly named Poolish in the recipe), which is basically an off-shoot starter, and allow that to fully mature. Then proceed with the recipe. 

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

it says 15g starter + 115g warm water + 115g flour, means its a 1:10:10 ratio. can sit that for around for 15hrs instead of 12?

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Try and get it closer to 12 if you cannot don't worry about it too much. You can chill the water in the fridge before making the Levain which will give you more time. 

Stick to the timings as close as possible and the clear instructions given. We'll see what happens and troubleshoot if need be. Whatever happens I'm sure it'll be tasty! 

Best of luck. 

P.s. if this works you want to think about keeping a little starter in the fridge. Build Levains. And when your starter runs low just take it out and give it a couple of good feeds the return to the fridge. This is a good and easy way to handle a starter. That can be discussed in greater detail after the bake.

bOjMenyek's picture
bOjMenyek

alright! thank you guys for the advices. let's see what happens tomorrow :D

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Remember that it's pretty warm where you are so things may speed up. Try and watch the dough not just the clock. If you see the dough doubling (just one sign that's it's done but there are better ways) quicker then proceed into the next step. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

all of the chilled starter 180g of it (leaving 20g to feed.)  Top off  the 180g thick starter with some of the other thinner starter you have around that is fermenting to make the 245g levain needed.   Why build a levain when you have so many jars around?  One step is already done.  :)

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

It'd be beneficial to go through a recipe and all the stages. Learn the techniques and stages. With extra starter just use up in pancakes or waffles etc

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

starter to do both if the new starter owner is up to it.  :)