Is this a sign of overproofing?
Hi - been a long time since I posted here - been getting back into breadmaking after several years hiatus, and decided to try some sourdough - specifically the Tartine recipe, after I tried a loaf a friend of mine made.
I actually made it two times already - the first with a great success, the second was still good, but not as successful as the first. I just tried for a third time, and something happened with the dough that caused me to just throw the whole thing out.
Basically, everything seems fine during the autolyse period, and then for the first few stretch and folds. But but the 3rd hour, the dough seemed to start to break down somehow. It was actually getting more wet feeling as time went on. The dough had some elasticity, but was almost turned into a thick batter type consistency by the end of the 4th hr.
I turned it onto my work surface and started to try to shape it, but it clearly was just not right - nothing like my first two attempts. I thought maybe I'd try to slap it around and knead it a bit, but that seemed to just make it worse. After 10-15 minutes, it was literally like pancake batter and I just tossed it.
I have no idea what went wrong here. The starter was clearly working - the dough increased in volume by about 30% and was bubbling like crazy towards the end. I wonder if I just over-did the rise period?
A few notes about my setup - I do the rises in my oven with the light on. I wonder if it was just too warm in there? Could that cause something like this? Also, I do my stretch and folds in a stainless steel bowl - could that have anything to do with it? Other than that I'm pretty much following the formula exactly. 750 gm of water, 1000 gm of flour (900 gm bread/100gm ww), 200 gm of starter.
Is it possible the starter itself was too hydrated? I fed it early this morning and it had been sitting out at room temp all day, for about 10 hrs.
I just want to get some ideas of what I should try to change up for my next attempt. There are only so many variables here, just got to pick one!
Thanks in advance for any tips.
Did you machine knead this dough at any stage ?
The bowl isn't the problem. The rises-with-oven-light-on are most likely the problem. Have you checked the temperature in the oven while the dough is fermenting? Odds are pretty good that it is much higher (possibly in the 90-100F range) than the temperatures Mr. Robertson recommends. If you follow the suggested timings with much higher temperatures, the fermentation will progress much further and much faster, leading to the kind of damage you experienced.
Paul
The temperature was probably too high. My oven with the lights on and the door closed hits 110 F. I usually put a wooden spoon in the door to keep it cracked open and the temp is 82F which is exactly what Robertson wants. Try keeping the door open just a bit and definitely check what the temperature is with a thermometer.
I missed that . It may be possible to change the light bulb for a lower wattage , giving out less heat
Dough that breaks down into a sloppy mess as it proofs is usually dough gone proteolytic (gluten dissolving). Proteolytic dough is usually the result of a proteolytic, or too acidic starter. Basically, overactive enzymes and/or long exposure to acid causes the gluten to dissolve. When combined with a wet dough (such as Tartine), a proteolytic starter can make a real mess.
1) If it is the starter, you need to bring it back to health. Proteolytic starter is typically the result of underfeeding -- this can manifest in a variety of ways; such as too infrequent refreshment (relative to temperature), or too large of a seed amount with each feeding (which doesn't dilute the acid enough and which the culture can then repopulate too quickly given the available food supply).
2) Bake with a stiffer dough. Stiffer dough is more tolerant of overly acidic or proteolytic starters (though they too can dissolve into goo if things get bad enough). As your starter health improves then you can start upping the hydration of the dough.
Proteolytic dough can be a real nightmare (I've seen hundreds of pounds of dough go proteolytic at a time, and that's no fun), but with an improved starter maintenance routine and mindful fermentation, it's a problem that's easily fixed.
Cheers!
Trevor
Thanks so much Trevor and everyone else for the info. I was going to try my next attempt without the oven at all - and just do it on my counter. My kitchen is usually around 73 deg, but I figure the worst that would happen is that I do an extra turn if it's not ready after 4 hours? i.e. slightly cooler temp better than too warm? I could also try my oven without the light on.
Trevor - what you say is interesting, because my starter probably was the way you described. I hadn't fed it in 2 weeks, and I noticed a liquid layer began to form on the on top of it. I fed it that morning, left it out for several hours, and then used it that night. It passed the float test, so I figured it was ok. I wonder if it was just too acidic to use still, as you describe. What is the best way to get it back to health again?
Thanks again in advance!
H
I have never used it myself , even when my starter was a holey sponge rather than a bubbly batter .
My thoughts for reinvigorating your starter ... stir it up , put a teaspoon full into another jar , feed it , water it and put it on the kitchen shelf for a few days .