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What's the right grain for chappati flour?

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

What's the right grain for chappati flour?

I home mill my own flour and need to know what is the correct grain to buy to make whole wheat chapati and other breads that are cooked on the stove top using a griddle (or cast iron frying pan).

According to my Indian cook books, chapati flour is called *atta*;  this is generally  defined as  a very fine whole wheat flour milled from the entire wheat berry. My problem - what kind of wheat is used for chapati flour?

When I research it on the 'net, I get articles that say it is hard wheat  or durum wheat. However, my cookbook "The Art of Indian Vegetarian Cooking" (by Yamuna Devi) says atta is made from *soft* wheat flour and goes on to suggest mixing two parts whole wheat *pastry* flour with 1 part unbleached white flour or *cake* flour if you can't get imported atta flour. This certainly suggests that *soft* wheat, not hard, would be the better grain choice.

I use a Nutrimill grain mill which can produce a finely milled flour. But what grain should I use - hard wheat? soft wheat? durum wheat?

Looking forward to your answers - thanks

charbono's picture
charbono

I have two books of Indian cooking, one by Doshi and one by Pandya.  For chapati, they simply specify whole meal flour.  There is no mention of hard or soft, and there is no mention of atta.  One mentions kneading, which implies a hard wheat.  Durum doesn't sound right.  Since there is no yeast, perhaps it's just personal preference.  Wish I could help more.

cb

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

There's been a few discussions, maybe this thread will help..

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/4065/semolina-vs-durham#comment-20471

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

Hi (and thanks for responding)

However, I am the poster in the link you cited.

I am hoping for feedback a little less circular, though I appreciate that you took the time to search. 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Sorry..we have such knowledgable people.. I knew I remembered reading about it and thought this expert was for you..little did I know it was you..  ;  )

PaddyL's picture
PaddyL

...recommend sifting whole wheat flour for a close equivalent to atta flour.

merrybaker's picture
merrybaker

I used to make chapatis from home-ground hard wheat berries mixed with storebought, unbleached A-P flour. The chapatis were just okay. Then I tried Pillsbury atta. What a difference! Now my chapatis look and taste like they should. So the flour does make a big difference.

I know you want to use your own flour, so I'd suggest you use something fairly soft. Otherwise, rolling them out will drive you crazy. I agree about sifting out some of the bran. Atta is lighter in color than whole-grain whole-wheat, and is very fine and smooth.

When it comes to making the chapatis, don't make the dough too soft. Don't knead it too much -- gluten is not your friend here. And be sure to let it rest 30 to 60 mins before rolling.

ejm's picture
ejm

I make chapatis with a half and half mixture of whole wheat flour and allpurpose unbleached flour. (This is what Jaffery recommends in one of her cookbooks) I could get atta from Indiatown but I'm too lazy. For paratha, I use 100% wholewheat flour. (around 14% protein content)

However, I have used atta to make chapatis and there is virtually no difference (to my mind).

I do not sift the whole wheat flour.

One thing I do swear by is using HOT water to mix the dough. I add enough to hold the flour together and then knead for about 5 minutes til the dough is smooth and silky. Then I allow the dough to rest for 30 minutes to an hour before rolling it out - this is the method that I was taught by our Indian friend who makes chapatis every day and learned how to make chapati from HER mother in India. (Our friend uses atta because she lives in India.)

From what I understand, atta is made from durum wheat.

-Elizabeth, in Canada

edit:

I remember having a discussion about atta some time ago in the newsgroup alt.bread.recipes. On 8 Jan, 2004, I wrote the following:

I know that durum flour is hard flour but it is also my understanding that atta is low gluten. Because there are so many Indians here in Toronto, my thinking was that they would insist on atta that was like atta from "home", therefore low gluten.

... excerpt from [the page that WAS at] www.foodindia.org/cereals_pro.asp
:
: In India wheat is ground generally into atta (whole meal), suji or rava
: (semolina) and maida (flour). These are further divided like high gluten
: and low gluten atta and low gluten, medium gluten and high gluten maida.
:................................................

... excerpt from [the page that WAS at]  www.microwavecookingforone.com/Namaste/NamasteFlours.html
:
: Durum Atta Flour — Fine whole wheat flour used to make rotis,
: puris and parathas. Also known as chapati flour. Low in gluten,
: atta flour is easier to knead and roll. It may also be used
: for making certain sweets and snacks like ladoos or mathris.
:..................................................

 

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi Elizabeth

I believe you mill your own flour (?)

If you were milling whole wheat flour for chapati and you did *not* have durum wheat, would you chose *soft* wheat or *hard* wheat to mill for the whole wheat flour? (Or, perhaps, you dont think it matters either way ???)

thanks - SF

edh's picture
edh

Hi subfuscpersona,

I think you've got me confused, maybe with ejm? I do mill my own flour, but I've never made chapatis (actually, only ever eaten them once, a million years ago!), so I'm afraid I don't have any advice :-( Sorry!

edh

merrybaker's picture
merrybaker

I emailed my niece, who makes chapatis on a daily basis. She suggested mixing hard and soft wheat flours together to make a medium gluten flour. That way you’d get the best of both worlds: easy rolling, high puffing, soft consistency, and good keeping. She makes her dough in a food processor, and it takes less than a minute to mix and knead.

ejm's picture
ejm

On May 21, 2008 - 12:02pm, subfuscpersona wrote:

hi Elizabeth

I believe you mill your own flour (?)

If you were milling whole wheat flour for chapati and you did *not* have durum wheat, would you chose *soft* wheat or *hard* wheat to mill for the whole wheat flour? (Or, perhaps, you dont think it matters either way ???)

thanks - SF

No, I do not mill my own flour. I buy "no-name" allpurpose unbleached from NoFrills (a branch of the Loblaws chain) and 5Roses whole wheat flour - both in 10kg bags.

But what I do to make chapatis is basically what merrybaker's niece suggested. (I don't make them every day though) I use a half and half mix of all-purpose unbleached (~11.5% protein) and whole wheat flour (~13.5% protein) mixing it with a little salt and just enough HOT water to create a ball of dough. And I DO hand-knead the dough for about 5 minutes. I've found that this is essential. Otherwise our chapatis are tough.

The two cookbooks I used to remind myself of what to do, after my hands-on lesson with our friend in India, were "Entertaining Indian Style" by Shehzad Husain and "A Taste of India" by Madhur Jaffery. Husain writes (and she's right):

"Do not get disheartened [...] you will improve with practice."

This is pretty much what our friend in India said too....

Happy chapati making!

-Elizabeth

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

...as usual, excellent advice.

Based on the answers, I think I'll try whole wheat flour milled from soft wheat mixed with some commercial unbleached white bread flour for a slight gluten boost (probably 70% WW, 30% white). I will definitely use warm to hot water and a good resting period before rolling them out.

In the past I've made chapati just with commercial white flour and we preferred the ones made with all-purpose flour to those made with bread flour. (The flour that performed best was Hecker's All-purpose Unbleached, which has a slightly higher protein content than some other brands of all-purpose, but not as high as bread flour at 12% protein. Hecker's is primarily available in the northeast US but the same flour is marketed as Ceresota brand in the midwest.).

Testing with durum flour will have to wait. I've never worked with durum flour and am reluctant to purchase yet another type of grain, given my ample supply of other grains, especially wheat (red / white; soft / hard winter / hard spring).

I'm planning on making the chapati when the summer comes when I want a bread that can be baked on the stove top. When the temperature soars into the 90s, I try to avoid using my oven a lot.

So again, THANK YOU ALL - and if anyone has further tips, please *do* post them.

ejm's picture
ejm

We've cooked both pita and naan on the stovetop (and on our gas barbecue). So you don't have to confine yourself to chapatis only in the summer. Focaccia and pizza can be baked in the barbecue as well.

-Elizabeth

(our flatbread recipes, including pita, naan, chapati, focaccia)

 

edit: Here are some photos of making pita and making naan on the stovetop.

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

hi Elizabeth-

Thanks for the links. I put a link to your site in google notebooks in my bread notebook. (I like google notebook because I can put links to all my favority TFL posts there so I can find them easily. You can also include comments and tags for each entry, which makes searching very easy).

Alas, no barbecue for me, living as I do in a small city apartment with no balcony. However, I'll try the stovetop approach for pita and naan this summer.

QUESTION - where did you buy the rack that you use to puff up the pita or chapati? I'm due for a trip to my favorite Indian spice store to stock up but if they don't carry them, is there a mail order source you'd recommend?

TIA - SF

PS very nice photos of the process of stove-top baking on your site 

edh's picture
edh

Elizabeth, those are great photos of pita and naan in process. The final pic of the naan with dinner made me very hungry!

Subfuscpersona, for what it's worth, I do pita on the stove top, but just cook it on the spider until it puffs up. Otherwise the process is the same as ejm's; cook it until bubbles are about to appear on one side, flip it, cook it until it puffs up. Sometimes I have to go back and forth a few times to finish the puffing up, though that's more the case with higher percentages of whole grain. I don't get 100% to puff all the time, but that has more to do with inconsistancy on my part in the rolling out of the dough than the cooking method... I like them better on the stove than in the oven because you get those little blackened spots that I think are the best part.

edh

ejm's picture
ejm

Thank you both for your kind words! I know what you mean, edh; we like the bread best when it's cooked on the barbecue because it gets those lovely blackened lines (also the best part) Ours don't always puff either. I'm pretty sure it's because of my rolling technique. Sometimes I roll them too thinly. But it's not a big deal if they don't puff. The flavour is still fabulous.

SF, if you're lucky enough to have a gas stove, you don't have to use one of those racks at all. You can do the final puffing directly over the fire. I don't know if this is possible on an electric stove though....

We get the racks in Indiatown. (Didn't someone ask about this before? looking...) Aha!! Yes! It was you, SF. :-)

excerpt from the answer in entry entitled "failed wild yeast dough rescued to make great chapatis":

They call [the rack] a "roti fluffer". It didn't cost a whole lot - $5 sticks in my mind.

It looks like this online company is selling them but I can't see a price or a location:

http://www.avoindia.com/productdetail.php?productid=4

Ask at your Indian spice store where they get the racks. I would be really surprised if they don't know where you could get one. The racks are available at many of the stores in our Indiatown. Good luck!

-Elizabeth

utahcpalady's picture
utahcpalady

I make roti and get them to puff up well.  I use a metal cookie cooling sheet over top of my burner, it works well.

auntysharm's picture
auntysharm

I am a 'good Indian girl' taught how to make chapatis by her grandmother and you can make them from pretty much any flour.

The key to making good chapatis is resting your dough (no less than 30 minutes < wags finger > )

Good luck and make sure you post pics :) 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

This lady has wonderful videos on how to cook just about any Indian food. http://www.manjulaskitchen.com/2007/03/21/roti-chapati-flat-indian-bread/ is the link


 

 

 

utahcpalady's picture
utahcpalady

As mentioned earlier in the thread, roti is also on the stove, my kids really love it.  My indian girlfriend taught me how to make them, after eating them at her house growing up I had to learn how to make them.  She just uses whole wheat flour, good quality.  I also have a ultramill wheat grinder and probably 1,200 lbs of wheat in my basement (I am serious about my food storage).  I have a group at church that we order our grain all together.  I really like montanamilling.com, talk to Cheryl H.  She is great, they have a ton of different types of grains for you.

Oh and try vahrehvah.com he is a really funny indian cook with great videos and recipes.

Nim's picture
Nim

Chapatis are made with 100% whole wheat, no AP or Bread flour. The "Atta" we get in India is milled from Indian wheat, for which as some posters have suggested, the nearest equivalent might be soft wheat. Indian wheat berries are smaller, light brown and long grained. It looks very much like wheat berries here but has less of an intense color.

I know people here have suggested that it is Durum flour, I cannot attest to it becoz the durum flour I have seen here (for pasta etc.) tends to be a bit more yellowy than "Atta", so I am not sure.

I have not tried this, but a mix of spring wheat and white whole wheat may also turn out nice for chapatis.

That is not terribly helpful, is it?

ejm's picture
ejm

Even though atta is available in Toronto even at the supermarket, I use a half and half combination of whole wheat flour and unbleached all-purpose flour for making chapatis. The combination works fine and the resulting chapatis are good. Or at least we think so.

-Elizabeth

P.S. I'd buy atta if I were making chapatis every day....

soleilnyc's picture
soleilnyc

One thing that I've noticed when baking with atta (from the Indian store) is it definitely seems to be higher protein: just a little bit of kneading creates a smooth, elastic dough that windowpanes. I can stretch the dough paper thin to make roti canai.

Recently, I went back to the store and noticed that they'd relabeled the atta to read "Atta (Durum)".

Hope this info is useful!

subfuscpersona's picture
subfuscpersona

...and I want to thank you.

I am the original poster. Based on early suggestions and subsequent experimentation, I settled on (home milled) soft wheat. I have both white and red soft wheat and use them interchangeably (or combine red and white). The soft white wheat yeilds a more neutral taste (closer to unbleached commerical white flour) while the soft red wheat tastes more like what people expect in a "whole wheat" bread.

yours - SF

cognitivefun's picture
cognitivefun

kinda like tortillas :)

 

 

DaniC's picture
DaniC

If you want to make roti and have them puff up, then you need to use durum flour. I tried many types of North American flour, and it wasn't until I tried "semolina" flour, which is made from durum wheat, that I got the same kind of puff as with the (atta) flour from India.  I have not yet tried milling my own durum wheat berries, but it should work fine.  I prefer 100% whole wheat flour and only add water, since it tastes so delicious. A refined durum wheat flour should also work, but it might need some salt for taste and would not be as healthy.  If you want to make leavened flat bread using yeast or another leavening agent (like sourdough, baking soda, etc), then you can go ahead and use almost any flour combination, but for authentic unleavened roti that puff up consistently you need the hardest wheat, durum wheat.

appleg's picture
appleg

Hi DaniC.

I was about to set out to test different grains, but it looks like you have already done that.

So, where can I order whole durum flour. I can only find central milling's offering.

Also, any idea why the grain hardness is important for chapati?

 
rgreenberg2000's picture
rgreenberg2000

OOOPS!  Sorry, I was thinking durum berries, and you're looking for flour.  They have semolina at Purcell, but that's probably more coarse than you are looking for.......

I'll leave this here in case anyone is looking for whole durum berries:

I found a decently priced 5lb bag of Durum Wheat at Purcell Mountain Farms.  I have been looking since the shortages began, and that's about the only place I could ever find something less than 25 or 50lbs.

Don't know anything about Chapati, so hopefully someone else chimes in on your other question.

Rich

appleg's picture
appleg

Hi Rich, thanks for chiming in regardless.

If my hunt for the flour fails, I might consider purchasing a mill.

DaniC's picture
DaniC

The key characteristic for making unleavened roti (chapati) puff is the fact that the flour holds a lot of moisture.  Durum is the best for this, and even course semolina (which is refined) will work.  Durum dough also has high extensibility (not the same as elasticity) which helps to roll it even and thin.  The high gluten content keeps it from tearing when it puffs.  Durum wheat berries are expensive online due to shipping unless you live near the shop and can pick it up in person.  They grow desert durum near my house, yet I can't get any because they only sell it in multi-tons to Italy and other pasta-plants.  So for now I find it best to go to an Indian market and purchase the stone ground whole grain flour (called "atta").  Some brands even show a puffed roti on the bag.  I find it is fresh enough, works perfectly, tastes delicious, and makes good pasta and moist banana bread too.

DaniC's picture
DaniC

p.s. Although durum is a hard wheat with high gluten, it doesn't form the same type of elastic gluten structure as typical bread wheat, so it is not good for yeast or sourdough breads, thus it is mainly used for pasta.  However, in Italy, in a town (Altamura) near where my grandfather was from, they do make a risen bread from durum.  It is a dense loaf that stays moist for days.  I'm sure it tastes great because their wheat tastes great.

appleg's picture
appleg

Thanks for the detail Dani!

I live in Arizona so I reckon there's a Durum farm around here, but I can understand that has no bearing on local purchasing ability.

I'll have to consider trying different brands of atta. Actually, a family member picked up some flour from another grocery store and we found the change refreshing...setting me on this investigation.

Separately, I look forward to getting my hands on durum flour one way or another and a few other varieties to perform a cooking and consumption comparison.

DaniC's picture
DaniC

You are correct appleg. I was visiting Arizona last week and they do grow desert durum there as well as in So. California, but good luck getting any.  Someone please post if you know a way.

For specifics on Indian flour, I’ve tried

(1) Aashirvaad brand “Select Sharbati Atta” which says it is “MP Sharbati Atta from Central India” and

(2)  Aashirvaad brand “Shudh Chakki Atta” which doesn’t say where it is from. 

You can purchase these at local Indian markets.

#1 is a little more expensive and one store owner told me it was “finer and better”, but I actually found #2 to puff more consistently and taste better, so I plan to stick with it for now.  I agree with others that it is not quite as yellow as I would expect for durum, but it definitely holds and releases the moisture like durum, so that is proof to me.

Many stores carry Bob’s Red Mill semolina flour (which is a course ground refined durum).  This will work well for oil-free unleavened roti but is not the whole grain.  Durum wheat berries and whole grain stone milled flour are sold by some online retailers, but shipping to your state is probably costly. It appears that Italy does not currently grow enough durum to support their own pasta production, so I'm guessing it would be even more difficult to find wheat from there.

 


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mwilson's picture
mwilson

Durum is weak yes.

But 'high extensibility' is definitely not an accurate description. Actually the opposite is true. Durum can be characterised as having poor extensibility and high resistance to deformation.

Durum is a bit like playdough in that it doesn't stretch very well.

It is this very quality that makes it suitable for and unique to pasta application. The "short and hard" gluten binds with sauces and gives it that texture that makes it hearty.

Extensible doughs made from softer wheats make tender and noodle like pasta that leeches more starch when cooking. This is why eggs are added to soft wheat flours for pasta and durum can work with just water.

MayankG's picture
MayankG

Most, if not all wheat in India is soft white winter wheat. That is what is milled in traditional stone mills, (now mechanized), at a 100% extraction and used for chapatis. 

The Indian varieties of wheat grown are derived from the Mexian variants, Lerma Rojo 64, Sonora 64, and PV 18. They were cross bred with varities selectively to rid of the deep red colour (we liked our chapatis white)! 

For now, the most popular/prized variety is grown in central India, known as Sharbati wheat, that too is a soft white wheat. 

Village households still use the hand stone mill to meet all their flour requirements. As you can imagine, this only mills 100% and its fairly coarse. There is little option to sift/control the milling action. 

Manufacturer of All types of Flour Mills & Emery Stone - ADINATH ...

The protein content in Indian wheat is usually between 10-12%, which is what is milled into the flours we use aat home. The dough is fairly tight, and sometimes a few drops of oil/ghee (clarified butter) is added. 

Additionally, the wheat is traditionally soaked in water and dried in the sun before milling to soften the berries. 

Good luck. 

DaniC's picture
DaniC

Thanks for the info on Indian wheat varieties.  That might explain why the Sharbati flour doesn't work as well.

Again the key is in how much moisture the dough holds and how “extensibile” it is.  Extensibility is opposite elasticity.  Durum and the Indian roti wheat (#2 above) hold moisture and have good extensibility.  Bread wheat has poor extensibility but excellent elasticity.  The soft wheat (pastry wheat) of North America does not hold adequate moisture.  For some chapati and most other flatbreads made with oil and other ingredients, almost any type of flour can be used, but for unleavened roti that puff up on a hot flat pan using only water in the dough, the flour must hold significant moisture and roll thin (good extensibility) and I’ve found that is the case with the Indian flour (#2 above) and with durum flour.  That is my experience.  

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Sorry to disagree but...

The strong durum exhibited higher P/L ratios than common wheat, indicative of a less extensible dough (Marchylo et at 2001).

The inextensibility typically associated with durum wheat is one reason thought to explain why durum bread has lower loaf volume than when made from hexaploid wheat (Ammar et at 2000).

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/347944#comment-347944