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Equipment questions about Tartine and FWSY

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Equipment questions about Tartine and FWSY

I purchased both Tartine and FWSY and plan on working from both cover-to-cover.

 

1) Which book should I start with?

2) FWSY recommends a 12 qt container, 2 6 qt containers for the levain and poolish, and 2 banneton baskets.  Tartine doesn't have any equipment recommendations.  What containers should I get for the levain and poolish, as the 12 qt seems rather large for mixing and those seem large too?  I also hear the baskets are hard to use.  Or are they recommended?  

3) Tartine also mentions they use a "container made of material with insulating properties, to maintain the warm temperature of the dough during this crucial development stage."  Not sure what they are referring to.

4) Anything else I'm missing besides good flour?

 

Thanks.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

So I'm going to recommend that one simply because I don't have the other.

But what I wish to make you aware of, when you go down the sourdough route, is the seemingly confusing way Forkish explains on how to make a starter. He'll have you up to your neck in starter and discard. Scale down to a normal amount. No need to ever go higher than 150g or so. Otherwise keep the ratios.

Only get a big container for the dough. Otherwise a normal jar for your starter. You've picked up on this abnormally large container for the starter that's because Forkish goes wild when making one.

Great book and whatever you decide, Enjoy!

joc1954's picture
joc1954

I have both books and it is hard to advice with which one to start. I was already baking SD bread when I bought Tartine Bread and actually it was very inspiring and I have learned a lot from it. My biggest mistake was that I was blindly following the book recipes regarding the amount of water and as I can't get a strong bread flour I always ended up with pretty much runny and wet dough. Only later on I learned to adjust the amount of water to the flour capabilities. From FWSY book I got some ideas but never used a single recipe so far.

Regarding the containers Lechem gave you a very good advice. I am using a glass jar for my starter which I feed regularly with 30g of flour and 30g of water. That is just enough for my needs and most of the time I am baking almost every day so my starter is staying on the counter.

For mixing the dough I am using some plastic vessels which are big enough that I can make dough from 2000 g of flour. After a while I have learned to watch the signs of the dough when it is ready for dividing. But at the beginning a vessel with some sort of scale on the wall would be fine just to easily estimate how much the dough has already risen. Use whatever fits your ideas. I assume that almost everybody has another type of vessel for this. I like mine because I can use plastic scraper to clean the walls after mixing.It has a plastic lid which I always use to cover the dough during BF phase.

Happy baking!

Joze

 

HansB's picture
HansB

Having both books and being fairly new myself I would start with FWSY. You'll likely have excellent bread on your first attempt using KAAP with the Saturday White Bread. Tartine is excellent but you start straight away with sourdough. I found it a bit easier to go with straight dough initially. For all practical purposes the equipment needed it the same.

Maverick's picture
Maverick

I would start by getting a starter together using Debra Wink's Pineapple Starter Solution. Then, when it is ready to feed after day 5, start feeding it the mixture that the books tell you. I would not use either book for beginning a starter.

http://forums.finecooking.com/print/node/63318?page=2&comment=737624
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10901/pineapple-juice-solution-part-2
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10856/pineapple-juice-solution-part-1

While the starter is still maturing, make some of the yeast breads from FWSY. Then when it comes time for sourdough, if you prefer to go right into 100% sourdough, go with Tartine. If you want to make some hybrid breads to allow your starter to mature more before relying on it to leaven bread by itself, do the hybrid section of FWSY.

In terms of flavor of the full sourdough recipes, if you follow their methods and not just their formulas, then Tartine will be "sweeter"/less sour. So it depends on what characteristics you like in your bread.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I second (or third or fourth) the suggestion to follow some other advice for making and maintaining starter. The FWSY method is so wasteful it's mind boggling. Use a jar. I use a plastic freezer container with a screw on lid for starter.

For dough I use all kinds of things. I have steel bread bowls that I use for mixing and sometimes fermenting and proofing. These are probably the easiest for stretching and folding dough in the container (easier than vessels with straight sides). I also have the square clear food-safe containers that I got from a restaurant supply place (used), as well as a couple of big plastic ice cream buckets (free). One of the deciding factors is what fits best into your fridge and/or your storage space for bread stuff!

I started with FWSY and went on to Tartine 3. I found Forkish's recipes and methods a little easier to start with and like a lot of his breads. Tartine was a bit more difficult and, like many people here, I've had to modify both FWSY and Tartine recipes (particularly fermenting and proofing times) to fit my schedule and environment.

HansB's picture
HansB

Here's my first loaf using FWSY.

leslieruf's picture
leslieruf

well done and keep it up!

Leslie

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

How is the crumb and taste?

HansB's picture
HansB

Thanks. That loaf was my first, done around 18 months ago. For a same day loaf it's hard to beat. I still make it when I don't have time for SD loaves.

Danni3ll3's picture
Danni3ll3

Be aware that his times may not work if you kitchen is much warmer than 70. Mine is between 70 and 72 F and his times were perfect. 

As to containers, I use the 6 liter/quart Cambro translucent container. It is plenty big and a lot cheaper than the 12 liter-quart transparent container Forkish recommends. 

When you get to the sourdough part of it, cut the amount to a quarter of what he uses. He is incredibly wasteful. Eventually, you will figure out a way to build up the amounts you need without throwing anything away but for now, follow what he says but with much reduced amounts. 

Tartine 3 was a source of frustration for me because, although the breads were tasty, they didn't look like his picture in terms of rise and crumb. I started having success when I cut back on the water and skipped the wheat germ he adds in. 

You will have a blast baking all of these breads. I heartily recommend that you start a bread diary so you can keep track of what worked and what needs to change. My bread diary is invaluable to me. 

starvingviolist's picture
starvingviolist

FWSY has more recipes and in general a more detailed and in-depth approach to the material, but I third the comments about starter size, and I would also suggest that the containers they suggest are WAY too big. I bought a giant cambro as suggested, but stopped using it after a while because it was much easier to just use large mixing bowls. For the starter, I think FWSY has a better method for establishing a starter. You don't need to do anything fancy and you don't need to buy one, although I did have to get better whole wheat flour to get mine to work, and use MUCH smaller quantities than he suggests. For establishing and maintaining my starter I used 1/10 what he suggests. 10 grams of whole wheat flour, 40 grams of all purpose, 40 grams of water, and it worked very well without huge waste.

Personally I have found the lodge hybrid cast iron to be easier to use than regular dutch ovens, as suggested in Tartine, and their sourdough formula works well, but the hybrid loaves in FWSY are very easy to work with, and the variety of schedules included in the book have been very helpful to me.