November 25, 2016 - 7:24am
Never give up, eh?
I've taken some starter (90% AP and 10% ww) from the refrigerator, weighed it, added 1/2 as much flour and 1/4 as much water. I'm aiming for a little drier dough. It's covered and in the closed pantry.
I've done the same with einkorn starter.
Let's see what happens this time. I'm willing to keep at this until I produce a decent loaf, but must admit, discouragement is starting to rear it's ugly head.
I'm going to try the 123 method yet again, but not sure it's working too well for me. Maybe I'll modify it and autolyse the flour and water and then proceed...
I really want to perfect creating sourdough bread. Miners did it! I should be able to, also!
Share
Why don't you try the 123 method with bread flour and 20% whole wheat?
Leave the rye and einkorn for some other time. Rye and Einkorn are very different to normal wheat. If you really wish to use rye then 123 method with 10-20% rye will be fine but for now don't experiment beyond that.
What is your plan of action and method?
Hi! I'm following the 123 method I read about here. My starter is 10%, 90% so I've been following that with ww and bread flour (or AP, depending).
Changing the proportions from the starter is ok, then? Not that I'm having much luck with starter today... my tried and true doesn't seem to be working. Maybe it didn't like the lesser amount of water I used today.
How old is it? Does it normally behave when fed and atleast double? Have you baked any successful breads with it yet?
Don't give up!
It's maybe a month old. It's a healthy, vigorous starter, usually. I've made one loaf of bread that was just ok. But it's me, not the starter.
I checked it a bit ago, and it's clearly working now, just took longer than I expected it to. So, what happens if I leave it on the counter overnight and mix the dough tomorrow? I've always just left it for a couple hours, then mixed the dough.
Should I feed it again before using it, if I leave it out overnight?
Thanks for all the advice. I think I'm reading too much; too many different ways to do things.
If by 'starter' you mean the levain you are using as the '1' part of the 123 formula, and it is active and working, you should be able to leave it out overnight without any problem. Of course, that depends how warm the room is. Has it doubled yet? If it has doubled and/or has started to collapse, then put it in the fridge and use it tomorrow morning to make the dough.
Don't stress too much; bread dough is actually quite forgiving! :)
When I was baking with yeast, I would agree with that! Not now! LOL. Yes, I mean the levain. I'm leaving it out to see what happens. I have a ton of it, so if I lose it, I'll whine, but survive.
Your help is invaluable. Thank you!
No wonder you're stressed! Keep about 100 grams of mother starter in the fridge (if that). When you want to make a 123 loaf, take 20 grams of starter and mix it with 40 grams of water and 40 grams of flour (mostly bread flour with a bit of whole wheat if you wish). Then you have exactly as much as you need! When the mother culture gets low, refresh it at the same percentage (i.e. whatever small amount you have left, add twice as much water and twice as much flour by weight). Leave it out until doubled and bubbly, then put it back in the fridge. Easy peasy!
I hope you don't get tired of hearing, "thank you." Simple, easy, and clear directions!
OK. Here we go again.
123 method mixed and resting for 30 min. after which I'll add the salt. The levain was fluffy and nice, so hoping that this will be a good loaf.
20% ww used with 80% AP. Ran out of bread flour so am using up some AP. I'll say this much for my determination to make a decent loaf, I'm going through all the flour in the house!
Discarded the einkorn. It was a little bubbly (frothy) but since it was a small amount, felt my time was better spent on getting one down without having to learn the ins and outs of einkorn sourdough, right now. I've used it with yeast, and it is a very different flour. Since I'm still not sure how a good sourdough should look and feel (as compared to what I know with yeast) I'll try to better focus on ONE than three!
...in the FACT that EVERY home baker has experienced problems with the bread they are trying to bake. You are not alone KayDee1. Everyone else reading this thread is nodding their heads thinking, "Yeah, I remember the time when I..."
The best way to tackle the 1,2,3 is to hold back a little on the water, measure it and have it ready but see how the dough mixes up first before adding all of it.
My other tip is, if you want a dryer dough, mess with the water in the dough recipe, not with the starter hydration. Your starter will take a bit of time to catch up if the hydration is lowered too much too fast. Raising the hydration is not so demanding of the sd culture.
Since I'm still not sure how a good sourdough should look and feel as compared to what I know with yeast.
It will feel like a yeasted dough only a little bit "wetter" from the bacterial fermentation as well as yeast fermentation as time goes by. The dough will break down faster during fermentation due to this dual action when compared to just instant yeast fermentation. As the dough breaks down, it gets wetter and looses its shape sooner, that's where the stretches and folds come in handy. They restore the rising shape and thus make better use of the continuous production of gas in the dough. Back to feely touchy... As the dough ferments and deteriorates, it becomes a question of when to stop letting the dough rise and get it baked before the protein matrix starts to fall apart.
I also suggest that while you are playing with sourdoughs, make a few yeasted breads between to boost confidence. Even though yeasted breads will be faster, it makes it easier to compare the feel of the dough and the aromas coming off the dough. There is also nothing wrong with slipping in 5% rye into an all wheat loaf to add more flavour. In a SD, 5% will speed up the fermenting times just a little bit. The beasties just love rye. :)
Thank you for your step by step help!
Einkorn for a whole year and I feel like a newbie myself, re-reading old threads and my own comments to get back into using it. I had a banana cake go totally flat on me and my first pancakes got secretly smuggled out to the field animals.
I tossed the einkorn starter. I'm going to focus on my ww/ap starter.
I put the dough in the refrigerator because I wasn't going to be home. It's rising even in there! I think this is going to be a decent loaf (if the oven cooperates).
I'm going to leave it in the refrigerator overnight, and take it out early in am... see what's up with it and then go from there.
OH MY GOODNESS! The dough that took over NY! LOL. The dough has nicely doubled, and still has good tension after being divided and shaped. I only have one basket suitable for final rise, so half is in there and the other half in a small DO. Depending upon how it looks after the final rise, I may try to bake right in the small DO. If it rises as I think it might, I will have to move the DO loaf to a larger DO for baking. I will then preheat both DOs.
The final rise is in the pantry, covered. Expecting it to be a couple of hours before I bake.
Oh, the dough was in the refrigerator for about 17 1/2 hours, and then on the counter for a little over 6 hours.
This is the nicest looking dough so far. Wish me luck!
I've been baking exclusively with 100% Einkorn for several years now and I still find it challenging. Perfecting your technique on "normal" wheat is a much more logical way to achieve your results with minimum frustration, then afterwards you can take on Einkorn confidently.
I've used einkorn successfully with commercial yeast. I clearly need to work on sourdough in general before branching out into specialty flours.