Kitchenaid Artisan Mixer
I've just recently started bread making. We have a Kitchenaid 4.5 quart mixer which does a good job on everything we've needed up to now. But it's having a lot of trouble with dough. There is no spiral hook available, and dough always likes to climb up the hook and hang onto it. At that point, I don't think any kneading is going on. It's just there for the carnival ride. The mixer is in pristine condition, and they seem to be built to last. So it's painful to think of moving on, but if I'm going to get serious with bread, I think it's the only option.
For me to convince the wife that we should drop a chunk of money on a new mixer when we have a "perfectly good" one right there on the counter, I can't go looking at something that's going to cost several hundred dollars. After feeling her out some, I believe that $250 is the absolute top end I can justify. This puts me in the "Artisan" category.
Looking at Amazon, it seems that there are a lot of Artisans, and they don't all seem to be identical. As far as I can tell, they all have a 325w motor, and they're 5 quart. Aside from color and metal/glass bowls, are all Artisans the same?
I just don't want to find the best deal on an Artisan mixer only to find out that that specific species of Artisan can't accept a spiral hook, or is somehow deficient for dough kneading.
Regardless, I'll certainly wait for black friday/cyber monday before buying.
Have you thought of making it without a mixer and saving yourself some money? I make usually 4 loaves and do it all by hand. The only hard part is the initial mixing but using a Danish wish has really helped with that. And I don't knead the dough, I use stretch and folds like many here.
If this is s possibility, go on YouTube and do a search. You should be able to find videos of this method. Trevor J Wilson is one person that posts on TFL who Has a number of videos.
Hope this helps.
I have some physical issues which prevent kneading by hand. My wife could probably do it, but her interest in bread making begins and ends at the eating part of the process.
I do not like Artisan mixers, I feel they are meant exclusively for pastry work. They can manage small load of relatively wet dough, but people who overloaded them have complained about mixer walking all over the place and even popping out head fixation pin. Get a bowl lift version instead. Have someone take to Sam's or Costco - their mixers are the best bang for the buck, and at this time of year they are always discounted. Sam's will typicaly have better/livelier color selection. Alternatively, you can buy a refurbished one from Amazon.
Thanks for your advice.
I see the "KitchenAid KV25GOXER Professional 5 Plus 5-Quart Stand Mixer" at amazon for $260. Perhaps I can find it even cheaper around black friday.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001HLTSE/ref=twister_B0001ILY88?_encoding=UTF8&th=1
Is this what you were talking about?
When you talk about the mixers at Sams or Costco, are these Kitchenaid, or are they their house brands?
This looks like an assortment of colors I've seen at Sam's. I also see a 6-qt version which may or may not be better.
Refurbished! I totally forgot about that.
I mix in a KA. Have you thought of upping the hydration a bit? When I have your problem I often add water, or barring that, I stop the motor and slide the dough down with wet hands.
I have a KA Artisan mixer. It will do dough for 2 loaves (750 grams each) of dough. The hook is a J-style hook, not a spiral, and yes, sometimes the dough climbs up the hook. It does the same thing on my 30 quart Univex floor model mixer, so I think that's just a thing that happens with bread dough sometimes. Stop the machine, scrape the dough off the hook and try again. The mixer doesn't 'walk' across the counter but I do have to keep a hammer handy to keep pounding in the lift head rotation pin (stupid thing). If I had to buy a KA again I would definitely go for one of the Pro bowl lift models instead.
I have to stop the motor and slide the dough off quite a bit. It happens so much that I ultimately developed a method of constantly lifting and lowering the head to keep it from rising too high. But it's an annoyance.
And I definitely have the problem of it walking across the counter, although I didn't realize it. Earlier this week I was making a loaf. I started the mixer at speed #2 and set the timer for 4 minutes. Then I came into my office to study the next steps in the process. After 3 minutes, CRASH!! It had walked across the counter, and apparently unable to bear the strain any longer, leapt off the edge. Amazingly, it survived just fine. I set it back onto the counter and resumed the kneading. I then went to comfort one very frightened dog who'd been sleeping nearby.
i use a Kitchenaid. I'd die if I had to do the whole thing by hand. Yeah if you're doing a whole batch which is usually 2 loaves there's gonna be some creep. And not enough dough and it could just end up spinning around in the bowl. I usually do the whole batch and just reach in and pull it down occasionally. Gotta watch the knuckles but you get good at it. After the dough mellows it will lay back down. It changes consistency like 3 times as you work so you're really only managing the creep about a third of the knead.
A new Kitchenaid will not solve a problem that results from the basic Kitchenaid design.
If you make small batches, then a big food processor will work.
I want to chime in here in agreement with those who say that there are kneading methods which do not require terribly strong hands, stretch and fold (sometimes referred to as S&F) is just one. And if you can grip the handle of a long wooden spoon you can use a hand dough mixer available at many sites on the web. See it at the King Arthur site but shop prices on the web elsewhere before paying King Arthur's price as they've a tendency to charge more for the same item easily found elsewhere for less.
Also, spend time shopping on the web for other mixers than those of the KitchenAid design. Bosch's Mixer and the Electrolux Assistant use a different design altogether and are often available used, at Ebay for instance. I was lucky enough to get a nearly new Assistent years ago. It does everything and has a much better design than the KitchenAid. My guess is that the Bosch would suit your purposes as well. Without knowing about your hand problems, I still would guess that you could use either more easily than the KA style.
I have a kitchenaid and you can use it a lot less if you add the water to the flour and stir let that set for two hours and then add your starter and salt.
Enchant, you haven't mentioned your common loaf size. As Richkaimd says, there are other options beside KA. If you are making smaller loaves, the Bosch Compact is a great option - it looks like a toy, but it works great, and the price is right. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-MUM4405-Compact-Tilt-Head-Pouring/dp/B0001NNLH0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479565216&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+compact+mixer . It comes with a 4 quart bowl, so that should work for you, unless you were making larger loaves. Another option is ebay for a used Bosch , compact, universal, or universal, or universal plus. If you are making much larger loaves, I agree with Rich that the Assistent is great, though an older model on ebay will still set you back around $300 or more with shipping. If you decide to check ebay, make sure you research thoroughly, there are many sellers who sell well above Amazon, this seller wants 50% more than Amazon, and charges a 20% restocking fee, plus return shipping, http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-qt-Compact-Stand-Mixer-Kitchen-Bread-Whip-Cream-Stir-Batter-Dough-Pastry-Chef-/321984644575?hash=item4af7c7c5df:g:epEAAOSwoy... . Even for used Assistent , this seller has it listed more, including shipping , then new http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magic-Mill-Assistent-Dough-Mixer-DLX-2000-White-Heavy-Duty-Accessories-Working-/131990030018?hash=item1ebb3806c2:g:C4kAAOSwA3d... even though it is the older 450 watt model, not the new 600 watt version, and comes with no warranty. BTW, I have the older 450 watt model and it is plenty powerful enough, just trying to make the point that not everything listed on ebay is a bargain .
I appreciate all of the suggestions, but abandoning Kitchenaid for something I'm totally unfamiliar with makes me uneasy. If they were cheap, like $50, I might investigate some, but it's $200 for the Bosch Compact which is smaller than what I already have. And it really looks kinda plastic-ey. I honestly think I'd prefer to stay with my 4.5 quart unit. I also have accessories that attach to the kitchenaid (cheese grater, meat grinder, etc.), so I'd have to keep both mixers around. Counter space is short as it is.
Black Friday/Cyber Monday is right around the corner. I'm going to keep my eyes peeled and see if I can grab a professional 600 for under $250
But to answer your question, I make what I thought was a standard loaf. the pan is something like 4x8. If I had a large enough mixer, I'd probably make two loaves at a time.
https://www.bfads.net/Search?q=kitchenaid&t=items&s=all&c=all
After lusting for a Kitchenaid for over half a century, the Most Beloved hubby bought me one at Sams about a year ago. It is the 5 qt. Professional Lift model, the KV25GOX (the rest is color information) in Teal Blue for $299...It is 450 watts, unlike the 6 qt. 600 watt version. It is wonderful for bread, with the simple caveat to mix at a low speed for the heavier, thicker doughs. I have used Lv8 out of 10 for kneading ciabatta dough with no problem, but mix my lower hydration doughs at no more than 4...
I wouldn't take any other brand if you gave it to me. But again, having yearned for a KA for so long, I may be highly biased...You know how crushes go... :D I also would turn my nose up at the artisan, it seems more like a kid's Kitchenaid to me, although it probably does an awesome cookie dough.
I would suggest you spend the extra $50 to get the KA from Sam's or Costco, or Amazon if you find a good deal, which it looks like you have. Agreed that Black Friday and CyberMonday deals may even save you more money. You're worth it.
I was ready to snatch up that professional 600 mixer that was sure to go on sale on Black Friday, when something occurred to me. I did some checking on the dimensions. It's 17" tall. My cabinets are 16" above the counter and the doors are 16 1/4". This would mean that I'd have to keep moving this thing around the front of the counter to get into various cabinets. I checked the pro 5, and it's 16 1/2" tall.
From what I can tell, only the bowl-lift models come with a spiral dough hook. I'm surprised they don't make a high end model with a tilt head.
I may have to rethink all of this.
I have a Pro 5 Plus that I purchased 10 years ago. Although I have been gentle with it, it will do bread and smaller amounts of cookie dough without a hitch. I would run it about once per week, and then only when I wanted to play with it some. It had the plastic gear cover, which I swapped for a metal one. It still runs like new, and maybe the new metal cover helps it run a little quieter. And yes, it has the metal gears, just as KitchenAid advertises.
So... If you're looking for a mixer for around the $250.00 range, I don't think you can go wrong with the Pro 5. It has the spiral dough hook, so no worry about dough climbing up between the flange and the bowl. Also, no worries about a tilt-head pin. Keep your batches at less than 8 cups (which I recommend even for a 7 quart Pro-Line). Add just enough flour to make the dough workable, just where it cleans the bowl and doesn't feel too sticky, knead for 5 minutes or less, and you should be fine.
Actually, I pulled the trigger on a model that appears to be very similar to the 600 pro model for $220.. It was a very short-lived black friday special at Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/KitchenAid-KL26M1XER-Professional-6-Qt-Bowl-Lift/dp/B01LYV1U30/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8
It's nearly identical to the 600 pro model, but without the pouring shield and possibly a thinner gauge bowl.
I was concerned that I had no where to put it since it won't fit under the counter, but my wife came to the rescue with a great idea. She's going to pull our fine china out of one of the lower cabinets, box it up and put it in a closet. We haven't used it since it was given to us as a wedding gift about 137 years ago. I'm handy with woodworking, so I'm going to gut the cabinet and build a rolling tray for it to sit on