Thank you for posting. Very interesting vids with a lot of info on sourdough.
Finding the location of the Bread Center took almost as long as watching the videos! Apparently they are located in Belgium but they allude to activities in the US However, I can only find local email contacts listed in the different states and no other info on activities or innovation centers. Do you know of any US locations?
when he said in part 2 that the low pH will not be good for the yeast. In reality it is the LAB that are restricted by their own acid production much more than the acid tolerant yeast in the culture which do much better than the the LAB in a low oH environment. Other than that It was spot on and fun to watch
although on much more simpler terms (I don't know the complete science of sourdough starters). I just thought that a starter is symbiotic so the acid shouldn't be a problem. But having said that I am not sure now why LAB should be "restricted by their own acid production".
My question is... as you know i'm trying to get more tang and not less, however should I find my starter too tangy then instead of washing it shouldn't a goof feed do the same thing?
a bit like being 25, investing for the long term, 40 working years and then dying the next day. I keep ine in the fridge fior over 20 weeks take out a bit and feed it a total of 12.5 times flour to the pre-fermented flour in the starter. That 10 g of whole grain rye starter, even though it has a much lower pH than his white one, gets way more diluted than his does. If you want mire sour you need to do the things that increase the LAB to yeast ratio in the starter and levain.
Using white flour with the starter stored in the fridge for 1 week doesnt get that done at all. Way better to build a whole grain starter at 92 F and 66% hydration, then build a bran levain at 92 F from 10 g of it and then do the gluten development, ferment and proof of the dough at 92 F. No amount of washing the starter will change that outcome of sour:-)
One was discussed many many years ago here on TFL and it entailed practically the opposite. Keeping the wash water in stead of the glutinous mass. The water contained the yeast & the bacteria, the milky starter was fed.
Other than the obvious, the difference is, this one has added flour to the starter before "washing."
I'll have to watch it again but when you say "...the difference was with this one has added flour to the starter before "washing." Do you mean that he purposefully thickened up his starter in order to wash it i.e. he would have kept his starter at a higher hydration but that would be un-washable.
Now what would the advantage be of keeping the water and using that to make a starter instead of vice versa? Is it the difference between a six and 2 threes?
This is really helpful. Original poster explains it so well with a good guide on how to wash your starter. My most recent problem was a starter which isn't producing enough tang so my current project is to encourage more acetic acid. But eventually the waste will build up I suppose and I should wash it. When do I wash it? I suppose I should go by taste and if it gets too sour then it's time. I thought the acids in a starter was good for you and it's what makes the bread more nutritious breaking down the phytic acid etc. I suppose to what extent.
Now I want to know is how a wash would be better then a good feed? And if I use my starter to build a levain then it shouldn't be a problem in the actual bread as it would have had two big feeds by the time it gets to the dough stage.
Then why not neutralise it another way? (add a xmall amount of baking xoda, crush in a few soda crackers or use an antacid tablet or... simply, just feed it)
I suppose that one could wash and skip over a feeding to save on flour. But does one really save flour? If the starter is first thickened (which also raised pH) and then washed? Would like to know what all got tossed out in the wash water.
Not to be too critical but the pH meter was stuck into the older more sour starter or into the one that had flour mixed into it? Have to go back and look.
Thank you for posting. Very interesting vids with a lot of info on sourdough.
Finding the location of the Bread Center took almost as long as watching the videos! Apparently they are located in Belgium but they allude to activities in the US However, I can only find local email contacts listed in the different states and no other info on activities or innovation centers. Do you know of any US locations?
Here is the linked web address http://www.northwestsourdough.com/sourdough-baking-courses/
I believe the lady behind the camera is the owner of the channel and website. She has made many videos of herself baking sourdough. Send her an email.
It is very interesting and educational to watch these videos.
when he said in part 2 that the low pH will not be good for the yeast. In reality it is the LAB that are restricted by their own acid production much more than the acid tolerant yeast in the culture which do much better than the the LAB in a low oH environment. Other than that It was spot on and fun to watch
although on much more simpler terms (I don't know the complete science of sourdough starters). I just thought that a starter is symbiotic so the acid shouldn't be a problem. But having said that I am not sure now why LAB should be "restricted by their own acid production".
My question is... as you know i'm trying to get more tang and not less, however should I find my starter too tangy then instead of washing it shouldn't a goof feed do the same thing?
a bit like being 25, investing for the long term, 40 working years and then dying the next day. I keep ine in the fridge fior over 20 weeks take out a bit and feed it a total of 12.5 times flour to the pre-fermented flour in the starter. That 10 g of whole grain rye starter, even though it has a much lower pH than his white one, gets way more diluted than his does. If you want mire sour you need to do the things that increase the LAB to yeast ratio in the starter and levain.
Using white flour with the starter stored in the fridge for 1 week doesnt get that done at all. Way better to build a whole grain starter at 92 F and 66% hydration, then build a bran levain at 92 F from 10 g of it and then do the gluten development, ferment and proof of the dough at 92 F. No amount of washing the starter will change that outcome of sour:-)
One was discussed many many years ago here on TFL and it entailed practically the opposite. Keeping the wash water in stead of the glutinous mass. The water contained the yeast & the bacteria, the milky starter was fed.
Other than the obvious, the difference is, this one has added flour to the starter before "washing."
I'll have to watch it again but when you say "...the difference was with this one has added flour to the starter before "washing." Do you mean that he purposefully thickened up his starter in order to wash it i.e. he would have kept his starter at a higher hydration but that would be un-washable.
Now what would the advantage be of keeping the water and using that to make a starter instead of vice versa? Is it the difference between a six and 2 threes?
and is one better than the other? What purpose is served with each method?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/946/does-using-not-too-recently-refreshed-sourdough-lead-very-sour-sourdough
Again in 2008:
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/comment/36343#comment-36343
This is really helpful. Original poster explains it so well with a good guide on how to wash your starter. My most recent problem was a starter which isn't producing enough tang so my current project is to encourage more acetic acid. But eventually the waste will build up I suppose and I should wash it. When do I wash it? I suppose I should go by taste and if it gets too sour then it's time. I thought the acids in a starter was good for you and it's what makes the bread more nutritious breaking down the phytic acid etc. I suppose to what extent.
Now I want to know is how a wash would be better then a good feed? And if I use my starter to build a levain then it shouldn't be a problem in the actual bread as it would have had two big feeds by the time it gets to the dough stage.
There's so much to learn.
Then why not neutralise it another way? (add a xmall amount of baking xoda, crush in a few soda crackers or use an antacid tablet or... simply, just feed it)
I suppose that one could wash and skip over a feeding to save on flour. But does one really save flour? If the starter is first thickened (which also raised pH) and then washed? Would like to know what all got tossed out in the wash water.
Not to be too critical but the pH meter was stuck into the older more sour starter or into the one that had flour mixed into it? Have to go back and look.