The Fresh Loaf

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please help me trouble shoot my loaf

Nataly's picture
Nataly

please help me trouble shoot my loaf

Hi,

I am a new sourdough baker. This is the picture of my bread I would like some help with, namely why it is so flat and has a uneven holes. 

I have recently created a 100% hydration rye starter, which I was feeding on the counter top up until a few days ago, when I started storing it in the fridge. My starter, fed at 1:2:2 peaks and begins to subside in about 14 hours. I let it do most of the rise before moving it to fridge.

I use Jovial all purpose einkorn flour for my bread and I bought their cookbook to get myself started. The cookbook recommends einkorn starter and so does Carla, the Jovial owner and the author of the cookbook on their forum. I tried to convert my rye starter to einkorn, but it seemed not as active and I abandoned the attempt. Maybe I should have persisted, but most internet sources say rye should work for everything and is easier. I also come from the rye region of the planet, so rye starter feel closer to my heart :) Einkorn starter recipe from Jovial also is 50% hydration and uses a much smaller innoculation percentage than what I have used so far, so this big change is intimidating to me. Also Jovial einkorn starter is expected to peak under 5 hours.

Anyway, at first I was struggling with my starter to get it up to speed and used longer proof times to compensate for it being so new, then I noticed my starter picked up speed and my loaf became over proofed/sour. 

For my last loaf, pictured here, I used less proofing time. My recipe requires einkorn levain (30:125:125) developed over 6 - 10 hours, 3 stretch and folds over 1 hour, then 3 - 5 hours bulk fermentation and 60 - 90 min final proof.

I first left my levain overnight, but after 9.5 hours I saw no bubbles at all. It did smell/taste sour and changed consistency to more liquid/puffy. I thought it was over proofed and started again during the day, This time I waited for 8.5 hours and saw very few bubbles. I tried to stir it and then it got all bubbly on top. Is that normal? This is the step that I suspect the most. I decided to use it at that point, so mixed the dough, stetch/folded as directed and during bulk fermentation it seemed to double in just 3 hours, looked puffy and even had a few visible bubbles, which I didn't expect. Does it mean I am wrong about levain? It did make the bulk phase go well? 

At that point I shaped by boule and moved into a banneton for an hour. At the end of the hour I did a poke test. Since  I am still new to it, I can definitely say the indentation stayed, but I am not sure if it half rebounded or possibly less. There was some rebound to it, not necessarily half. I moved it to 500F preheated dutch oven and baked for 40 min on 450F and a couple more minutes after removing the lid.

I was trying to get help from Jovial forum, but they want me to convert my starter. Should I just do it or is there a shorter way to success if I stick with the rye? I don't want to convert unless I have to, but I am not sure what else to try next?

I should mention my bread tastes pretty good, although it is a little too sour for my taste and slightly gummy.  

Thank you,

Nataly

Nataly's picture
Nataly

I forgot to mention the ambient temp. It's about 74F in my kitchen. I was adding water to the levain and to the recipe at 100F. Starter is fed with the room temp filtered water.

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

I didn't read your post.  But from the picture I know it is underproofed.

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

You used your starter before it was fully active.  That's why it was underproofed.

Nataly's picture
Nataly

Thank you. I assume by starter you mean levain? That is the part where I wasn't sure. But what confuses me is the during the bulk fermentation the dough doubled and in the end the poke test left indentation in place. If the I underproofed at the levain phase could it still behave this way at the later stages? I am also wondering why it tastes pretty sour? I thought sour was more of a overproof sign, not underproof?  

MichaelLily's picture
MichaelLily

If the starter balance is more acidic, there will be fewer yeast organisms and therefore the loaf can theoretically be very sour with little rise at all.  I don't know about your recipe, but my eyes do not deceive me.  I have made over ten thousand loaves of bread in the last 10 months and I know underproofing when I see it.

suave's picture
suave

Starter was weak/not used at the peak, no question about that.

BobBoule's picture
BobBoule

I've been baking with Jovial Einkorn for several yeas now. The typical rules for all other flour just do not apply to Einkorn because Einkorn being the original ancient grain ancestor to all modern wheats, behaves differently. Its normal for it to nit rise well because it does not have the super elastic gluten that modern wheat has.

I tried all the regular recipes I found, on Einkorn and although I baked loaves, they weren't great. Every recipe had to be adjusted in various ways to make a halfway decent loaf. This is why I suggest falling the Einkorn cookbook's recipe very precisely, and I suspect that is why the folks on the forum are trying to convert you.

Pure Einkorn loaves (like mine) do not rise as much as conventional wheat loaves , its just something you get used to over time. I also find that its hard to work with because it has little gluten strength.

The irregular holes are typical of artisan loaves, they are not a problem they are an artistic signature. Machine made brea will have extremely regular holes because they are designed to be that way. Just keep experimenting and post your results here and have fun!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

going. flavour and rise will improve. Takes about 5-7 days. don't forget to site search here for einkorn :)

I would say just put some einkorn flour and water together and not convert the rye starter.

I would also feed the rye starter more food at a feeding/refreshing and get it warmer while you want to get the yeast boosted, something over 75°F. Stick the jar in your pocket or find a warm spot for it. Then watch the peak and poke that peak as it rises. Rye starters can dome and stay that way long after the inside starter culture has fallen. Use a clear jar so you can see the gas pockets forming.

To avoid too sour a bread dough, build the levain in several steps and not all at once, gradually using the recipe flour and water until the levain is about half the weight of the remaining flour. . This will lead to a milder loaf.