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Problems in shaping and final proof - Ken Forkish recipe

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

Problems in shaping and final proof - Ken Forkish recipe

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to bread baking - been baking my own for about 18 months, was using just Bittman/Lahey no-knead type recipes for the first year or so and now working my way through the Ken Forkish book and accompanying videos. Having some trouble today with the 75% whole wheat 'Saturday' bread (yes, I know it's Monday). The autolyse and initial mix went fine, and it built up what felt like a nice gluten structure (for whole grains, that is) after the three stretches-and-fold, and rose normally during the bulk fermentation.

Then I tipped it out onto my bench to shape, and things went downhill. Got it into its boule shape, but had some sticking on the board when I went to shift into the proving basket. As a consequence I think it partly tore. I should add that I have unusually small hands - to the point where I cannot hold and work a full-size chef's knife or grip a football - and therefore really struggle with scooping the boule up and shifting it.

It is now proving, and seems to be rising/growing again while doing so, but it also looks stickier than it did before the bulk fermentation, with little bubbles across the top, and no sign of passing the indentation test. Afraid to move it out of the proving dish and do more damage, not sure if it will over-rise/overproof if left as is, but doesn't look proven enough to bake. [Edited here to give better description of problem.]

I know there are many threads about this recipe on here, but I can't find anyone with this exact issue, so grateful for any advice, for this loaf, or my general small-handed problems with this kind of baking.

-PmP

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Little hands are not a problem, get yourself one or two large bench scrapers.  I like to use dry-wall taping blades (plastic) from the hardware department.  

Sounds like the shaping needed a bit more tightening, Yes, sourdoughs get stickier or wetter as they ferment and that is the reason for the folding/ stretching and returning the dough back into a round shape.  

Bubbles across the top sounds like it needs a reshape to trap what is now escaping gas.  You will want to get it into the oven before the dough gets too relaxed and sluggish after the shape.    

Don't be afraid of the dough, you're the boss here.  If you have one of those cheap floppy plastic cutting matts  use it for a bench scraper,  Or cut one smaller about the size of the bottom of your bread pan to use while moving dough around.

So what has happened in the last two hours? 

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

Hello again,

It was so late by the time I finished re-shaping, re-proofing and baking that I went to bed, but here is how it turned out. Not much oven spring, alas, but a decent crust and an even shape, and I'm hopeful it will be edible. At work now, but will cut into it this evening and see for sure.

Thanks for the advice! I will keep working at my shaping. I think the bench scrapers will work wonders on the initial shaping as well as in moving the dough around, and I will try the plastic mat too. How would you advise using these to help with the bit where I need to kind of drag the boule along the bench to develop a skin? I find it very hard to get a steady grip there, as my hands can't get around the perimeter of the loaf, and I worry about tearing if using the scraper for that.

Thanks again!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or a wide plank running from the table to a chair.  Start out putting the dough on the level board near to what will be the bottom of the hill with the scraper holding it in place as you...  Tip the board and rest firmly on the chair.   Using both hands on the scraper, drag the dough upwards on the wood.  The forces should make it work.  When you get to the top, let the dough back down a little bit onto the scraper and then move the dough to parchment or floured banneton with the help of the second scraper.   You could also try making smaller loaves.  

I use pan lids to move things too and plates or shallow bowls.  

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

Thanks Mini Oven! The 'hill' sounds interesting! My scrapers come on Friday so I will try to use them and the 'hill' for my next loaf (probably early next week) and see how it goes.

Smaller loaves is not a bad idea. This one was 500 grams of flour. I did one once that was just 350 grams and I could move that around much better so perhaps I will try for that loaf size. I might need smaller pans to bake in then - excuse to go to the shops!

Thanks again for all your help!

-PmP

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

I have been using the scrapers and plastic mats as you suggested, and even rigged up a 'slide' from the top of my microwave down the counter for the rolling bit. It all seems to be working. I made this loaf yesterday, and while I still need practice, this is a vast improvement and made for very delicious avocado-on-toast this morning. Thanks Mini-Oven!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

That's what I'm here for, to give ideas and make life a little bit less frustrating and more fun.  Glad things are working for you, you seemed to have figured it out!   Have a good weekend!  

Monsoon Mini

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

Thanks Mini Oven! I will absolutely try the bench scrapers when they arrive and let you know if that works better.

In the last two hours it has made some small progress but not much - looks about the same. Bubbles still there but not much air seems to have escaped. I put it in the fridge for a bit as I was worried about it over-proofing while I looked for a solution. I have now taken your advice and re-shaped. I had to ask my partner (who has average sized hands) to shift it back to the proving basket for me, but it seems to have gone right, and we will bake and see.

I'll let you know how it goes!

Truth Serum's picture
Truth Serum

Let me know if the bench scrapers help. .I also compensate by some of the following

  • If a dough is sticky I do it after it has been in the refrigerator overnight
  • I also practiced boule making technique with rolls.
  • I use a pullman pan

And I always have fun!

 

preppymcprepperson's picture
preppymcprepperson

Practicing with rolls is a great idea. So far, the bench scrapers and plastic mats have been very helpful to me too. The one time that I let the dough sit overnight in the fridge think I overdid it, and so I have been wary of trying again, though I can imagine it is easier to shape cold. 

Having fun is key though! I'll let you know if I find any other great tricks!

markgo's picture
markgo

Hi. If you wish, check out my video (link below)... I purposely show the "tuck-and-stretch" method that I've learned from this site and other youtube videos to deal with sticky dough. Saved my butt more than a few times. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXpRKoehv_U