The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Oat & Barley Loaf

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Floydm's picture
July 6, 2006 - 8:49am -- Floydm

Mini Oven's Oat & Barley loaf with scissor cut.

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JMonkey's picture
Submitted by JMonkey on

Mini Oven, that's a really nice looking loaf! How does it taste?

The flour on top -- is that from the proofing bowl?

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Thanks for the encouragement.
Yes, there is flour on top and not from the proofing bowl, half of it flopped out and I had to scrape half off the cloth and reshape a very wet loaf. That's what oat flour does to your dough, sticky and wet. Excess flour can always be brushed off after baking, that's when the slashing makes nice dark lines. My Photo is unfocused and a bit over exposed too! It really looks like a lot but it's not. The cuts are an attempt with a stanley knife. I was a little shy but the dough did not rise much. This was baked on a papered Stainlesstone. Floydm was kind enough to post my pictures for me and stayed up all night to do it too. Thank you Floydm!

The taste has more bitter than a weak rye. The oats give it a nutty taste and balance the flavor. I cut it thin, 1cm thick, or 3/8 inch. Goes good with bratwurst and open face sandwiches. With butter and Blueberry jelly, there is an interesting twang. Right after this picture, we ate open face with mayo, tomato slices and crushed dried herbs. Jars in background are fresh made Pusta Salad and my sturdy bamboo spoon. :) Mini Oven

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

I made one again today for someone's birthday. Used two heaping tablespoons of Chinese Breakfast sourdough starter and kept the barley and oat flours down to 1/3 cup each in the poolish then added one cup of water and enough white flour to make it interesting. Next morning added a whole egg and rest of the ingredients and changed to dark brown cane sugar. It shaped very well and I thought I wouldn't have to worry about the rise. Ha Ha Ha. Glad I had my casserole handy. Greased it, floured it, and plopped my dough in for the third rise. Sprinkled a little flour around the rim an put it into 220° oven with loose foil on top. 40 min later, finish, yes, and no fussing! Took a better picture than above but no slicing, it's a present. Happy Birthday! :) Mini Oven

Sylviambt's picture
Submitted by Sylviambt on

Just noticed this posting. Will you share the recipe?
Sylvia
In search of the perfect crust & crumb

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Will post when I get back to China, am in Austria right now and took a quick peek into the site.  Sat next to a Baker's supplier on the plane.  What an oportunity!   Mini Oven

PMcCool's picture
Submitted by PMcCool on

Here's a recipe for those of you who are experimenting with barley breads.  I came across this recipe in Tom Jaine's Baking Bread at Home.  Haven't tried it myself but it looks interesting.

Barley Bread (makes 1 small loaf)

1 cake (15 g) fresh yeast

1 cup (225 ml) warm water

2 tablespoons heavy cream

1.5 cups (175 g) stoneground wheatmeal (85% extraction) flour, or equal parts unbleached all purpose flour and wholewheat (100%) flour

1.75 cups (175 g) barley flour

1 teaspoon salt

a little egg white mixed with 1 teaspoon of cold water for glaze

1. Cream the yeast in the warm water and heavy cream.  Mix the flours and salt in a bowl and make a well in the center.  Pour the yeast liquid into the well and mix to form a dough.  Turn onto a floured work surface and knead for 8 minutes.

2. Let the dough rise in a bowl, covered with oiled plastic wrap, in a warm place (75 F) for about 1.5 hours, until doubled in size.  Turn onto a lightly floured work surface, punch down and mold into a ball.  Flatten the ball with the palm of your hand and carefully roll up to form a simple loaf to fit a slightly warmed and greased loaf pan that measures 7.5 x 3.5 x 2.25 inches.  Try not to tear the surface of the roll when shaping it.  Cover with oiled plastic wrap and let rise in a warm place (at least 75 F) for 1 hour.  Meanwhile, heat the oven to 425 F.

3. Brush the loaf with egg white and water glaze, and bake in the center of the oven for about 25 minutes.  The loaf is cooked when it sounds hollow when tapped.  Let it cool on a wire rack.

Some of the flours Mr. Jaine lists aren't an exact match for what I can find here in the States.  Since he lives in England, they may be more familiar to British or European bakers.  If you get around to trying it before I do (and you probably will), let me know how it turns out.

PMcCool

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

I've been looking for some baking ingredients.  There is an interesting package of crushed barley and wheat, very coarse, hulls included,...in English...powdered malt.  I bought a small 400g package and hoped to use it in the above recipe.  On the way to check out ran into a beautiful young Korean dressed traditionally and representing a malted drink beverage.  She speaks English so I asked her what's in this package.  70% barley 30% wheat.  She explained it is used in a traditional drink, a sort of special tea.  I was not surprised to know that there is probably also some fermentation also going on with the malt.  I took it home and opened the bag. 

Very coarse stuff indead.  I picked out a few stems and a grain that had what I thought was ...ergot?  Naw, freaky, and sorted it out.   Took out a standard size sieve and sifted the stuff.  Lots of dust, went over to the ventilator and finished.  Then started picking through the hulls and stuff and found some more suspicious seeds, what was that....looks like a skinny version of ergot. 

Hey, I'm not so sure I want this stuff around.   I started to hunt down pictures and sure enough barley can also be effected.  It can be whopper size but also thin growing out of the hulled grain like a thick black hair.  This contains quite a bit.  Normally filtered out in processing, the fungus is poisonous.  I got to looking around and also checked on just Barley ergot and found out the Greeks had a brew made from barley including ergot to have visions with the gods.   Na ya, looks like something for the bin.  Yikes.  This stuff as beer would have one hell of a punch, even deadly.   So much for consumer protection, buyer beware.

(I wanted to put a loaf here.) 

Mini O

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

that is really quite frightening Mini. Ergot is most dangerous to pregnant women, so just as well you got rid of the stuff. 

But I wonder how many people haven't been as careful as you ?

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Yes, most would probably not recognize it. That's scary. Anyone who uses grain straight from the field should be able to identify it and pick it out. I know it by it's German name, my son shared that insight with me when he learned it in school. I know now it's a vasoconstrictor. I didn't know anything about it at 30 years of age.

Mini O

GrapevineTXoldaccount's picture
Submitted by GrapevineTXolda... on

I've been using (quite successfully), barley flakes as an addition to my sourdough loaves, but my source (local) has expired and I'm now on a learning curve with barley flour.  This weekend will be my first foray into using it.  I'm out of oatmeal so I'm considering a mix of wholewheat and KA bread flour with the addition of 2 T. wheat gluten.  My starter is active (one part rye to two parts KA bread flour). 

I'd had hopes of foregoing my Tablespoon of honey and 2 Tablespoons v/olive oil, but after reading blogs and entries I may keep with my regiment in hopes of keeping a normal bit of rise. 

Success=photographs, and failure="Dang! I can't find the camera (lol)."

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

I had.  I had very low gluten flour about 7 to 8% protein and so my loaves didn't have much strength.  You have normal AP and bread flour so don't worry.  I did like combining it with equal weights of rolled oat flakes to balance the flavors.  Have fun experimenting. 

Mini O

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Did you ever take a picture of the April loaf?  Let's wake up this thread!

I'm back to fresh barley flour from grinding barley flakes.  Doesn't seem to be as bitter as I remember, might have to do with grinding flakes (that have oxydized) as opposed to whole kernels.  Can't find the oats, will have to check stores in the foreign neighborhoods.   Luckily I'm in Korea now and can get ahold of stronger white wheat flours.  I cooked some barley flakes (more like slightly rolled or thick flakes) 1 to 3 with water for breakfast.  The left overs get experimented on.  I think I will try the above recipe and go from there.  

Mini O

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Fiddling with Barley:

 

 Moise shiny crumb thats chewy and sour.  Crispy Crust with darker flecks from the barley.

Small Barley Loaf:

Moist shiny crumb thats chewy and sour. Some might call it heavy. Flavourful Crust with soft darker flecks from the barley. Warning: not fluffy!  Addictive, do not let loaf & knife rest within computer reach. 

From cooking barley, start to bake, aprox. 20 hours.

Preferment:

  • 15g ripe starter
  • 150g water
  • 160g cooked barley
  • 100g bread flour -wheat 12% protein
  • 60g potato flour

Sit overnight or 8-12 hours (25°c or 77°F). Next day knead in:

  • 1/2 tsp salt (use for 1/2 kg dough or 1/4kg flour)
  • 100g bread flour

Let proof for about 4-6 hours and starts to show signs of life and rises about 1/3, then start to fold and rest every 30 min until getting airy and seems to rise quicker between folds. Between 4 to 6 times. Place into a floured banneton and proof about 1/2 hour. Invert onto parchment and slide into hot steamy oven. (230°c or 450°F) Here is where my fun begins: lots of steam and blasting! Gosh a steam oven is great! Release steam after 12 minutes and reduce temp to 200°c or 395°F after 5 min.

Bake time aprox 30-40 minutes until inside temp reaches 205°F or 98°c and outer crust is crispy dark golden brown with dark spots. Let cool or use lazer knife.

Mini-o

 

 

Paddyscake's picture
Submitted by Paddyscake on

I love barley..heavy, so not for sandwiches..maybe enjoyed with some cheese?

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Very good with cheese and peppers. I think also good with pork roast drippings and onion, salt & black pepper.  Open face sandwiches, yes.

Mini O

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

good with Marmite? 

 Toasted rye with marmite is my standard brekkie... barley might make a nice change.

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

The potato flour mentioned in above recipe is about 50% wheat.  ..it's a long story

Mini O

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

I love heavy bread - it is the weight I have been trying to get with my rye/wheat bread, but they keep just staying shiny and holey.

 Have you managed to get this lovely heavy almost bananabready quality with rye at all?

Lynne

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

and I also like to bake fluffy.  I've tried the Barley loaf mentioned by Paul PMcCool and coming after this loaf it was a very stiff dough but it came out nicely, I did learn the barley berries have to be ground into flour or risk hard little rocks in the bread.  Does take the fun out of eating it.  Barley has a nice flavour and no problem going half wheat and barley.  

I also soaked some barley for 2 1/2 days, drained and roasted it in the oven. Then I ground it to dust.  It smells fantastic my home made malt.  Started out with 100g and ended up with 85g. I'm also tweeking the Barley loaf into a sourdough just for added flavour.  

About rye, yes well, yes.  Rye is my favorite and I like a moist heavy slice that doesn't need butter.  I also add potato to rye and it does add moisture.  Try it, boil a cut up one and smash it into the cooking water and use it in a recipe.  If I had a nice slice of moist rye right now, I think I'd just savor it in front of me for a while.  Pour another cup of tea ...then I'd butter it slowly with cool creamy butter (yes, I know but I have some) and then I'd carefully cut it into little one inch pieces.  Then I'd open a jar of blueberry jam and put just a perfect little blob on each and every one.  Then I'd start (like I had all the time in the world) nibbling from one corner to the other savoring every little morsel till I got to the other side.

Mini O

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

oh Mini O... that's not fair...

 I want , no I NEED your blueberry jam ... LOL.  But I have Loganberry jelly, which will be nearly as good I bet.  So now I just need the nice heavy rye.

 I'm baking rye again this weekend, so I will have a go with your potato tip and let you know. :)

 Do you use a measured amount of water when cooking the potato and subtract that from the total? And my rye dough is already pretty gloopy, will the potato make it even gloopier?  

 

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

use it instead of water in the recipe, you might have to add just a touch more water but it won't be much.    Just measure the potato & water when you're done cooking.  If it's a great big potato, you might want to add just a pinch of salt too. 

Sometimes I skip the whole thing and add potato flakes, the ones they sell for mashed potatoes,  the good ones.  Depends on my mood swing.  Right now I have "potato powder," what ever that is.  Acts like flour so I treat it like one.

Mini O

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Here's the loaf.   Paul (McCool) gave the recipe way above 2 years ago.  So did you try it?

I've baked it the first time in a porcelain bowl.  The Loaf is heavy but very different from the cooked barley loaf.  Make sure the barley flour is fine for best results.  

baking in steam oven

Loaf baking after rising in bowl   ...next time look for a dark bowl, less refected heat

The crumb shot:

The bottom rather pale but nice form.

 

Then there is the second loaf, made in a square form.  This loaf had less barley flour but two teaspoons of self made barley malt:

 Cut after cooling two hours

Barley loaf crumb  

This loaf was removed from the form and allowed to finish last 5 minutes of baking on an open rack.  

Mini-O-Steam 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

Apprentice writes:

And while I have your attention, those two loaves you did from PMcCool/Jaine's formula for barley bread, did you think it was better with less barley flour + some barley malt? How much less barley flour?

I'm going to mix it up later. Surprised that the formula is 82.5% hydration -- that is, counting both water and cream! Was it quite wet?

_______________________________________________________________________________

 

I found it dry both times. Are you sure of the hydration? I don't know the % (I'm guessing at 60%) but it held together without dry spots but was only a little softer than my firm starter. I'd say it is the dryest dough I ever mixed up. I think for a straight dough, the taste was about the same but the 50/50 barley did rise higher and seemed looser. Both were heavy, hubby even commented on it. The second loaf had only 100g barley flour, the 75g was added in wheat. There wasn't much oven spring, I kept the skin oiled and covered while rising. I didn't slash or poke. I did not use glaze.

I didn't have cream, changed the water to 225 g plus one heaped tablespoon skim milk powder plus one tablespoon olive oil (oil added to liquids after yeast and milk was dissolved) The dough was stiff but it worked. You might want more moisture, I will try it if I make it again. I'd like to try it as a sourdough. (I've thrown away my barley and will get some elsewhere and a different brand, this one is also one edge of expiration.) I like the taste of barley.

Mini O

apprentice's picture
Submitted by apprentice on

I was mistaken about the hydration. Stoopid calculation mistake. It's actually 75%, still pretty high. The bread is in the oven now and seems like it will be very heavy. I think I recall a picture of the finished loaf in Jaine's book. It doesn't look like the same bread at all!

The dough was light and dampish. Handled like a dream. Silky soft and extensible but not very elastic. Rose well in the bulk fermentation stage. I divided it into two equal parts and shaped as pain-fesses. Is the term known outside of Quebec? La fesse means buttock or bum cheek. The English say more elegantly, "buns'o'bread". Will try to post pictures later.

Here's my math. Jaine was off on some of his conversions, so I corrected those:

6 oz/170 grams stoneground 100% ww flour (used Millstream brand)

6 oz/170 grams whole barley flour (used Anita's Organic)

1 oz/28.35 grams whipping cream in place of double cream

8 oz/227 ml water

0.2 oz/5.7 grams salt (1 tsp)

.16 oz/5 grams instant dry yeast (1 1/2 tsp) in place of his 1/2 oz fresh

Hydration: Cream + water/both flours = 9 oz/12 oz x 100 = 75%

Total weight = 21.36 oz/606 grams.

I'm a fan of barley, too, but not sure about Jaine's recipe. Will probably try one more time in case I screwed up somehow, but want to wait and see how this one tastes. More from me later.

apprentice's picture
Submitted by apprentice on

So sorry to hear that!!! I know what's on your agenda today. <sighs for you>

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

and the loaf looked so beautiful too... :(

 Lynne

 (if it's any consolation, despite chucking out everything not tightly sealed away a couple of weeks ago, vacuuming out the cupboards, washing down and layering each shelf with bay leaves, a darn moth appeared out of nowhere this afternoon.... grrrrrrr.....one of the sealed containers must still have something in it, but which one???)

Mini Oven's picture
Submitted by Mini Oven on

are outside and try to get in this time of year. They try all summer long. Got any potporrie  around that might have pods, seeds or dried arrangements? They could be slipping in through the door too. I remember painting all the shelves & shelf edges (press wood) to my mother's pantry before she would move in. Raw press wood is a notorious hiding place for bugs.

I really thought the extra browning in the oven might help keep the rope out. It was only a tiny loaf.  I only lost one piece, I took one out of the middle and tucked it away, the rest was eaten.  I feel fine btw acid in the stomach is there for a reason.  Once the bread changes smell and gets stringy, it's not good to eat.  I do like the flavour of barley but what if the next bag is the same? Boiling it should kill it so I'll have to do that first before using it. I have another test, with wheat. So far it's in order. Right now I've got concord grapes cooking. My peels seem a little tough, I might sieve them out. I would like an ice cream topping sort of brew. Got any ideas?

Mini O

josordoni's picture
Submitted by josordoni on

No, this was most definitely a meal moth... they fly differently to ordinary moths, and have a fat torpedo like body.  I had some plain flour that I had checked carefully and thought was fine, so had put in an airtight box, perhaps it was in the box, as I saw it shortly after using that flour to make a sauce.  Flour is now junked, box scalded and put away, I caught the moth with the back of my hand, but I can't find the body... so it might still be wandering around trying to find a way back in...

 We're pretty fortunate here really, we don't get much in the way of bug infestations usually, the climate is too cold for most of the horribles.  Mainly ants and harmless spiders.  I can cope with them!