The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Dutch oven for baguettes and buns...how?

nillo's picture
nillo

Dutch oven for baguettes and buns...how?

Hi,

I have successfully used my round Dutch oven for bread. Unfortunately my oven is leaking, so steaming is not really working, that's why the Dutch oven method is great for me. Now I would also like to use this method for long breads like baguettes, and also make buns. I have only seen long rectangular steel pans so far, but I think cast iron is best. I once tried stainless steel which did not work at all...now I also saw people using these disposable aluminum grill trays...do these really work? Is there anyone else using the Dutch oven method for baguettes and buns?

 

Thank you for your help!

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

The rectangular stainless pans work fine, as do the disposable aluminum ones, but you don't drop the bread into a preheated container, unlike the dutch oven method. You just use these pans to cover the bread. It doesn't matter what they're made of. Remove the cover after 10 minutes or so in order for the bread to brown.

nillo's picture
nillo

Even when using the stainless steel gastronorm pans(with lid), you would still not use them like a DO but instead only ue the bottom to cover?

http://www.nisbets.co.uk/3/Kitchenware-and-Knives-Food-Storage-Stainless-Steel-Gastronorms/c03c02c03.r12.1

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

Stainless steel is a bad conductor of heat, so it's not usually a good idea to cook things in it. Not sure what would happen if you used it like a dutch oven.

I use the method depicted in this video:

http://www.breadcetera.com/?p=85

Cellarvie's picture
Cellarvie

Hi nillo, thanks for asking this as I have the same need.  My boules are achieving good oven spring and crust under inverted clay flower pots, but the best I can improvise for baguette has been to trap what steam I can under an inverted, heavy grill tray slid into the rack above the bread - it's not very successful and only marginally better than nothing.  It'll be good to hear how others manage this.

nillo's picture
nillo

Okay, so you think metal/aluminum will work better, correct?

Do you still steam though like in the video shown? Most trays don't have a hole...and then you would still need to cover it again for baking.

Also, would preheating the cover make a difference?

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

"Most trays don't have a hole."

Drill one.

"you would still need to cover it again for baking"

No, once the steaming is done, remove the cover totally. I then switch on convection mode.

"would preheating the cover make a difference?"

No. What for? The cover actually heats up very rapidly. It starts to get hot even as I'm holding it still to inject steam.

nillo's picture
nillo

It's actually quite difficult to find a warming tray or some sort of pan that is NOT stainless steel. Even in the link you mentioned he is using stainless steel, but since I have not had godd results i a cooking pot, I am hesitating to buy a chafing dish like that...and all the disposabel tin foil pans are just too small and not high enough!

I am curious though: When you bake in a DO, you don't really remove the lid, or if, just really at the last 10-15 minutes. How is this different than when just using some sort of cover on a bread stone?

suave's picture
suave

That whole setup is overly complicated and totally unnecessary.  Just spray the inside of the steam pan with water before covering the bread and it will produce enough steam.  Keep it covered the same amount of time you do with DO.

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

How do you know it's unnecessary if you haven't tried it?

Merely spraying the inside of the steam pan with water will take a long time to generate steam.

suave's picture
suave

I know that spraying works because I've been doing it for years.  And how long do you think it will take for ~5 grams of water (there is no need for more) to evaporate in 450 degree oven?

tgrayson's picture
tgrayson

That isn't the question I asked you. I asked how you know it works as well as the "overly complicated" method you criticize.

I shoot 15 s of steam through the hole and that far exceeds 5 g of water. There is no better way to get steam into a home oven.

 

suave's picture
suave

You are working of a false assumption that more steam is better, and steaming more gives you more steam.  Let's look at the numbers though.  The largest steam steam pan out there is 6" half-size.  It's volume is ~20 liters.  Density of saturated steam at boiling point is .6 g/l so the most it can hold is about 12 g.  There are other ways to calculate this, but the number is about the same.

Is this a lot?  Well, let's look at the numbers.   A typical bread at 500 g of flour and 65% hydration will weigh ~825 g as it goes into the oven, this means that with typical 15% weight loss it will produce ~120 g. of vapor.  Now, that vapor is not generated ina linear fashion.  There is a lag in the beginning, while the dough is heating up, and a gradual slowdown at the end, but it's not unreasonable to assume that during the most critical part of the bake dough generates its own steam at the rate of 4-5 g/min, far in excess of what is steamed in originally.  It stands to reason then that the true effect of the initial steaming is to tide things over, until the bread heats up and starts producing its own steam.  

nillo's picture
nillo

Again, I can't even find a cover that somewhat has tge size of a baking pan...these tin foil pans are not deep enough!

Also, are there any pans/forms that you can proof your baguettes and rolls in and that you can also use to bake them in directly? I have only heard negative things about the normal baguette pans/trays. Problem is that I can't use a peeler to put them in the oven, my kitchen is too narrow. t's difficult to get something into the oven, would it be okay to remove the baking sheet that I am baking on (it is preheated) out and quickly put the baguettes on and then put it in back?

estherc's picture
estherc

I have gotten consistent excellent results with the emile henry baguette maker. The loaves are 13" long.

 

Rather than following the instructions that come with it, I preheat it in my oven like I would do a dutch oven. Use 250gm of dough per slot. I cook them for about 10 or 15 minutes covered then about 10 uncovered. 

 

I use sam fromartz's recipe which contains both sour dough starter and yeast. The crust comes out perfect, thin and crunchy. You can hear it crackling as it comes out of the oven.  It makes enough for 4 loaves and the baker holds three so I either do 2 batches of 2 each or do 3 and save the 3rd for an epi or pizza crust. 

jameseng's picture
jameseng

Sam Fromartz's book influenced my baking as well. It was an informative and enjoyable read.

carblicious's picture
carblicious

In a Dutch oven, I've made decent epi wreaths.  So if you're looking for a baguette and a bun combo, it's worth trying.

BobBoule's picture
BobBoule

I was teaching my old high school friend how to bake No-Knead bread in my Dutch Oven but she's unable to lift any weight so I switched her to the Sassafras Superstone® Covered Baker, which is the long (baguette shaped) version of La Cloche.

She preheats it like a DO and can easily place the dough in it then place the preheated cover on it then bake. Her bread looks as good as mine so you might want to consider this as a possibility for a leaky oven that can't hold steam.

The dimensions according to the manufacturer are:

overall height:   7" (to top of handle) 

overall width:   5.5" 

overall length:   15.5" 

base outer:   15.5"l x 5.5"w x 2.5"h 

base inner:   15"l x 5"w x 2.5"h 

lid outer:   15.5"l x  5.5"w x 3.75"h (to top of handle) 

lid inner:    15"l x 4.75"w x 3"h 

base & lid:   15.5"l x 5.5"w x 7.25"h  (to top of handle)  

base & lid:    15.5l x 5.5"w x 6"h (to top of dome)

Sassafras Superstone® Covered Baker

jameseng's picture
jameseng

Do you mean that the oven seal around the door is not keeping the heat inside the oven? Is that what you mean by "leaking"? As for steam, I prefer the Thomas Keller landscaping river rocks and heavy metal link chain in a pan method. I get billows of steam and a consistently terrific crust.River Rocks and Metal Chain

nillo's picture
nillo

I have used sauna stones (like lava stones) before and sprayed some water on it with a syringe, but again, immediately after I close the door there is a bunch of steam escaping the oven right where the door handle is, so it seems like not a lot is actually staying inside...

jameseng's picture
jameseng

Oh, I see. I get the same thing when I create steam in my oven. Steam billows out of the vent on the top of the oven. However, that's because there is such a tremendous amount of steam being generated. And while steam is surely escaping the oven, quite a lot is enveloping the bread while it is baking. I don't think there is any home oven that will seal all of the steam inside the oven chamber. But, the reason I think the method I'm using is effective is the crust on my baguettes is beautiful when the bread is done. I hope you figure it out!